120 Countries Together: The Reality of Travel & Marriage|(feat. John & Ann Cinnamon)

Shannon (00:01.752)
Welcome back to Travel Time Stories with Shannon, where real journeys meet real stories and healing happens one conversation at a time. I'm your host Shannon, coming to you from the Lone Star State of Texas. Some weeks I open up and share pieces of my own life story from my travel adventures to the winding road of healing and personal growth. Other weeks I'm joined by my best friend and co-host Ann from Missouri.

as we sit down with special guests who share their experiences, insights, and expertise to help all of us along our own journeys. Today, Ann is here with me. Hey, Ann.

Ann (00:41.09)
Hey everybody, this is gonna be a really, really great show. Thanks for joining us today.

Shannon (00:47.704)
Today's conversation is all about travel that goes far beyond sightseeing, travel that reshapes relationships, deepens empathy, and changes how you see the world and each other. We are blessed to have an amazing couple here today, John and Ann Cinnamon, who during their 30-year marriage have traveled to more than 120 countries, all seven continents, and all 50 US states.

They have a documentary, Journey on the Trans-Siberian Railway, which aired on PBS stations across the country. And I have watched it. It is a great watch, so check it out. And they've just released a new book titled, Travel is No Vacation, a Love Story. John and Ann, we're so excited to have you both here. Welcome to the show.

Ann (01:28.802)
Yes.

Ann & John (01:38.586)
Thanks. Thanks for having us.

Ann (01:40.344)
Well as we say on It was fabulous. I so enjoyed watching that I recommend everyone watch it. It was really really awesome

Ann & John (01:42.694)
And thanks for watching the documentary. Yes, we appreciate And for the book.

Shannon (01:45.741)
Hahaha

Ann & John (01:53.318)
It's three different cultures that you go through.

Shannon (01:56.48)
I know, that was amazing. I didn't realize Mongolia was part of that journey.

Ann (01:59.788)
Yes.

Ann & John (02:03.128)
Yes, and it was the we had already been to Moscow and you know a few stops in Russia and we had already been to China and several trips to China and the real reason we did it was Mongolia because we had not been there and we thought well this will be a journey a real adventure something really really different which it was and Mongolia was the highlight for a lot of people because you know it's kind of mysterious.

Ann (02:03.852)
No, I didn't either.

Ann & John (02:31.096)
out on the step and all of that, yeah, sleeping Gers and whatever. And you use the bathroom, they call the... They call it the long drop. Yeah. It's essentially an outhouse, but it's quite rustic. Yes, rustic's a good word. the long drop. But it was not disappointing by any means. It was beautiful, beautiful, unspoiled.

Ann (02:43.817)
gotcha.

Ann (02:49.57)
What a great name for it. I love that.

Ann & John (03:00.306)
We had this fabulous guide that he apparently at one time he had been a doctor and he made so little as a doctor that he went into the family business which was sort of a tourism business and became a guide. And his, we were told his Russian was better than his English and his English was excellent.

And he was a big fan of the NBA. Yeah. He knew all the American basketball players. In fact, when we asked where we were from, we said, we're from Indiana. And he said, Reggie Miller. He's one of my favorites. So he knew his stuff. Yeah. And that is so much the fun of travel is meeting people from other places that you think don't know anything about you and you don't know anything about them. And you have more in common than you would ever imagine.

Ann (03:31.128)
Wow.

Ann (03:38.136)
Wow.

Shannon (03:38.242)
Yeah

Ann & John (03:55.224)
And the fact that this, this man was born in a Ger and lived in a Ger for like the first seven years of his life. then moved to Ulaanbaatar, the, which is the capital of the big city and live there with his mother and his father is still a, a nomad and yeah. And, and very, obviously very educated, very intelligent. we so enjoyed him being our guide and you just learned so much and.

Shannon (04:14.891)
It's incredible.

Ann & John (04:25.088)
One of the big things you learn often is that people are people.

Ann (04:30.424)
Exactly. So as we say on travel time stories, grab your favorite beverage everyone and let's get into it. I have to ask before 120 countries and a PBS documentary, how did travel first become part of your shared life?

Shannon (04:31.347)
Exactly.

Ann & John (04:40.614)
Thank

Ann & John (04:48.038)
Part of our shared life was, well, getting married almost 31 years ago. Because frankly, I was not a big traveler. My family didn't travel when I was a kid. First time I was outside the continental United States was, I was probably in my 20s. I didn't start traveling really truly internationally until we got together. She's the traveler.

I grew up with a family, parents that had a real passion for it. And I hit 49 of the 50 states with them. A lot of it in a camper, which girls, know, and campers, not really. I wasn't all that fond of some of that. And then I took and we did Hawaii several times and some other places like that. And then we did a Bible sort of tour.

Shannon (05:22.893)
That's amazing.

Ann & John (05:42.47)
when I was 18 and 17. And we hit all kinds of countries in the Middle East plus Greece, Rome, Russia was my first trip to, and that was Soviet Union. And then I got married at 19 and two days later moved to Tehran, Iran. And I lived in Iran for a year and a half. I've written a book about that. And- That was her first husband. That was my first husband. And so, so-

Ann (05:53.4)
Wow.

Shannon (06:06.391)
Wow.

Ann & John (06:11.938)
You know, and then I have a couple of kids, so you put the big travels on hold when you're raising families and all of that. And then when we got married, which was 30 years ago, 30 years ago this past June, we started with just a honeymoon cruise. And then it just it didn't just grow, it exploded.

Shannon (06:18.658)
Yeah.

Ann (06:19.671)
Right.

Shannon (06:36.673)
Hahaha!

Ann & John (06:38.214)
I'm like, I do call myself a travel junkie and it's really hard to get your fix after you've been to so many places and then it started to get more adventurous and more more widespread in any given in any given trip. Many years ago we came up with what I call her travel theory, the while we're in the neighborhood theory of travel and that came up

Ann (06:47.212)
Yes.

Ann & John (07:07.662)
because we were planning to go to Rio in Carnival, or Carnival in Rio, Rio de Janeiro. And she said, how often are we gonna get, this would be our first trip to South America. She said, how often are we ever gonna get back to South America? We might as well go to Machu Picchu in Peru while we're there. Well, going from Rio de Janeiro to Lima, Peru is like going from Miami to Seattle.

Ann (07:13.929)
Ann & John (07:34.95)
You know here it's not it's not exactly in the neighborhood, but it's the same continent. It's all the same continent. So what the heck? So that's kind of how that started. So yeah, and so we've done a lot of that kind of travel to, you know, to pick up a bunch of things that at while you're somewhere. So one time we did an around the world trip and we started in from Indianapolis where we are. Well, we went to India first, India.

Ann (07:40.758)
Hehehehe

Ann (07:56.694)
Wow.

Ann & John (08:04.868)
to Vietnam, no I'm sorry, India to Tibet, Tibet to Vietnam, Vietnam to Cambodia, Cambodia to Singapore. So it was complete around the world trip. And it was awesome to say the least and lots and lots of stories and all from that trip. And that again, that was quite a few years ago. And we just became, I think more willing to put ourselves out there and do.

Shannon (08:15.927)
amazing.

Ann & John (08:34.246)
or adventure kind of thing. we've hiked Kilimanjaro, the Himalayas, and done those kind of things, Trans-Siberian Railway, which is what our documentary is about. so it's not always real comfortable and whatever, but it's certainly worthwhile.

Ann (08:36.386)
Mm-hmm.

Ann & John (09:03.846)
Mm-hmm.

Ann (09:04.69)
yeah, wow, that's impressive.

Shannon (09:06.743)
Definitely. And you also did a gorilla tracking too, right?

Ann & John (09:12.078)
Yes, yes we did. Yeah that was in, that was a trip to, that we included Rwanda and Ethiopia, but the main focus of it was go to Rwanda to Volcanoes National Park and hike a couple of hours into the jungle there until you find this family of gorillas that were actually studied, this particular family was studied by Diane Fossey many years ago. And get up there and here are these gorillas.

Ann (09:14.586)
yeah.

Ann (09:21.05)
Shannon (09:38.111)
yeah.

Ann & John (09:40.972)
who have been sort of vetted and they're trained, they're used to seeing people, so they're not aggressive. As long as you're not aggressive, you just stand there walking right in front of you, know, two feet in front of you, and it was fascinating. Yeah, so we, you have a choice of which actual hike you want to take, the track you want to take. Some are easier and some are harder, and we chose the hard one.

And that was the one to see the family that Diane Fossey had been with. And we hiked and saw nothing. And we thought, when's this going to, you know, when are we going see gorillas? And we got to this clearing and all of a sudden we could start seeing movement in it. And I'm getting goosebumps just remembering it right now. And these gorillas start moving around and then they move us, our guides.

Ann (10:13.922)
Mm-hmm.

Ann (10:22.872)
writing.

Ann & John (10:39.15)
moved us, you so we're in position to move with them, because what they were doing was searching for food. And we followed them for an hour. And we, I got a got pictures of them. There's a shot which we should we should send to you of the script. And he's looking right at me. And it's like mesmerizing.

Ann (10:59.628)
Yeah, definitely.

Ann & John (11:07.654)
And you know, used to stand in the brush and we had, I think there were two silverbacks in that family and we have pictures of one of them silverbacks. And it was just such an awesome experience. can only stay for an hour. If the gorillas start moving, the guides would make this noise. Yeah, they'd make this noise. go, apparently we were told sort of calmed the gorillas. It was speaking their language saying,

Ann (11:18.008)
you

Ann (11:34.613)
Shannon (11:35.117)
Ann & John (11:36.568)
everything's okay. And it was and it was fantastic. There was a mother gorilla walking through with well like a small baby gorilla on her back. was wonderful to see. And the gorillas at one time were definitely on the decline and now they've done a lot to to get to get their numbers increasing and all and you know

Ann (11:38.007)
Yeah.

What an experience.

Ann (11:47.736)
Uhhhh

Ann & John (12:03.43)
gorilla trekking, kind of thing, doing it that way, you're actually contributing to the gorilla's care and making sure that their environment stays the way it is, you know, that kind of thing. We've also done orangutans and Sumatra. We went to an area, one of our big things when we travel is seeing animals in their natural habitat. You can do that certainly on safaris, the gorilla trekking, Galapagos.

Ann (12:21.592)
cool.

Shannon (12:21.924)
my gosh.

Ann & John (12:32.633)
But this one was actually part of a cruise and the stop was in Sumatra and we decided let's go. There was an option to see orangutans and they had them in a rehabilitation forested area because their habitat was being was kind of deforested. And so they were endangered and we hike there for quite some time before we saw them. And then we actually fed them by hand.

They'd give us carrots or other pieces of food and the orangutans would come down far enough in the trees that they could reach down and you'd reach up and they'd take the food right from your hands. And they got these almost human-like hands and really soft and they were kind of gentle and it was like, you know, it was really such a cool experience and babies were there hanging upside down and whatever. a really great experience. That's some of our favorites, the seeing animals.

Shannon (13:01.655)
Yeah.

Ann (13:01.91)
hell.

Shannon (13:14.413)
Wow. Yeah.

Ann (13:15.966)
yeah, yes, how cool.

Ann (13:30.732)
Guys, how incredible. Gosh.

Ann & John (13:31.788)
in her natural habitat.

Shannon (13:32.107)
You

Ann & John (13:35.578)
Have you done Galapagos?

Ann (13:37.706)
No, I have not yet.

Shannon (13:37.865)
God no, that is Ann's bucket list number one. She wants to go so bad, but we haven't done it yet.

Ann & John (13:44.87)
It's great. It's like nowhere else because the animals are all endemic to the area. So you're not going to see many of these anywhere else. And they're not scared of us. We're not predators to them. So they don't run away. And my one of my all time favorite experiences, we went out snorkeling. We were on a small boat and jumped into snorkel and we could see baby sea lions that were all lined up.

Ann (13:45.201)
Yeah.

Ann (13:56.802)
Right.

Ann & John (14:12.742)
on a cliff not too far from our boat. And they started jumping in the water. And it was because they saw people and they're not afraid of us. And they wanted to play with us and they were big people. And so we snorkeled with them for quite some time. At one point, I'm snorkeling and I look out and I see this sea lion coming right at me. Look me right in the eyes of them.

Ann (14:25.368)
That's great.

Shannon (14:27.028)
my gosh.

Ann & John (14:40.304)
Don't laugh. I was afraid I was going to touch it or something. Because they say don't touch a baby because if you touch babies, then the mothers won't have anything to do with them. So you don't want to do that. And so I was really fearful that it was going to touch me or something. It got that close. But it was playing. And then we watched it. We snorkeled and watched them as they were. Yeah, there was a tortoise, a tortoise, a small, not one of the giant Galapagos tortoises, but just a smallish turtle in the water.

Ann (14:42.402)
Wow!

Shannon (14:48.854)
Yeah.

Ann (14:54.966)
Right.

Ann & John (15:10.34)
but these sea lions were messing with. They'd go down there and they'd hit it with their nose and flip these turtles upside down in the water, goofing with them too.

Shannon (15:16.961)
How funny.

Ann (15:17.496)
how honoree. I have no idea. That's great.

Ann & John (15:24.602)
They're playing. So definitely should be on your bucket list. is, it's beautiful. It is totally unspoiled. It's not like anywhere else you've ever been because most places frankly, you know, do get a lot of tourists and they get a lot of build up and that kind of thing. There's, only one island that you can stay on with hotels and, and we did that for a night before we got on the, on the boat.

Ann (15:41.89)
Yes.

Ann & John (15:52.47)
And so it's not terribly built up and they only allow so many people. You have to go through the certified companies that can take you there and do tours with you and all. Not everybody can, you can't just show up. And it is National Park, it is UNESCO, it's all those things. So, and they only allow so many per day on each island.

Shannon (16:08.865)
Yeah.

Ann (16:08.952)
Gotcha.

Shannon (16:20.109)
So did you, when y'all went, cause we're trying to figure out when we go, how we're gonna go. I know there's the option that you can go through the cruise lines and go on a cruise to the Galapagos. Or there's the option of just booking and doing ourselves and flying there and you know, like with the tour group or something. Is that the way that y'all did it or with the tour group?

Ann & John (16:31.302)
Hmm.

Ann & John (16:45.35)
Um, once again, uh, we went through a tour company and, um, I would not take a cruise line because there's too many people. don't understand frankly, why they're allowing. I know there is one cruise line in particular that well, pretty good size ship. And, they do use, they're not taking the big, you know, two, 3000 passenger ships there. They are the smaller expedition type ships, but that's still a lot.

Shannon (17:08.524)
Right.

Ann (17:12.845)
Yeah.

Ann & John (17:15.098)
The boat we were on was about 14, 16 people? Total. Total. And that's with our, we had a cook, we had, you guide, we had obviously the crew, and there was only like 16 of us total. And so not only is that nice because, you know, you're not fighting to get off ships and you're one of, you know, a hundred people or whatever.

Ann (17:15.82)
Mm-hmm.

Ann (17:22.706)
nice.

Shannon (17:30.388)
nice, yeah.

Ann & John (17:39.692)
It's just a better, I think a better experience overall. And I think it's better for the Galapagos. I'm really surprised that they let any ships that are not pretty small in there. so yeah, I would absolutely go in first of all, you wanna go in a day or so early and hit Quito Quito is very interesting. The town of the...

Ann (17:51.863)
Yeah.

Ann & John (18:06.052)
downtown, the old town, whatever, is a UNESCO World Heritage Site. By the way, this is Quito, Ecuador. The Galapagos Islands are part of Ecuador. And it's right on the equator, and there's an equator museum. so they do a bunch of, you know, you know how the supposedly do

Ann (18:14.455)
Right.

Ann & John (18:29.13)
Northern Hemisphere is clockwise. The water drains one way and then the Southern Hemisphere drains the other way. So they do these little tests of here's our sink on the northern side and now we move it over on the southern and it's good, you know. So they do that kind of thing and it's just kind of fun. There's different things in the museum. Well, and then they have the literally the painted line of the equator right here. We have a picture of ourselves.

Ann (18:33.59)
Right.

Shannon (18:33.697)
Yeah.

Ann (18:37.4)
was so cool.

Ann (18:56.79)
Wow.

Ann & John (18:57.424)
Standing this close, I'm in the northern hemisphere and Ann was in the southern hemisphere. This close, you just stand on the equator right there. was kind of fun. And I think Quito is definitely worth seeing. So a day or so there. And then you fly out of there and it goes through. I do not. Ega not going to go anymore. Quito out to.

Shannon (19:04.333)
Cool.

Ann (19:05.762)
That's awesome, what a great picture.

Shannon (19:08.064)
Yeah.

Shannon (19:24.845)
Yeah

Ann & John (19:27.654)
The islands, Galapagos Islands. but there is one island you stop on and whatever and then they take you over. And there are a whole bunch of different options, keep in mind. So you could do southern islands, you can do northern islands, you can do a combination, depends on how long you want to stay and how much you want to spend. It's not cheap. But I would also...

Shannon (19:52.47)
Yeah.

Ann & John (19:56.45)
say that you want to be sure and visit islands that have the Galapagos tortoises, Galapagos turtles, because they don't have them on all the islands. And so you definitely want to see them because they are pretty amazing. I mean, they look like like a prehistoric animal, something prehistoric and huge. There is also the

Ann (20:06.844)
okay.

Ann (20:11.767)
Yeah.

Ann (20:18.134)
Yeah, they do.

Ann & John (20:24.378)
What's the? it's there. have a Charles Darwin Research Center on one of the main islands there. That's got some really interesting exhibitions. you can visit that. So I would say, you know, make sure that you do a deep dive into the islands that you visit, because there's a ton of them. And you want to make sure you're seeing all the animals that you want to see. I mean, you can't.

Ann (20:29.684)
Wow.

Shannon (20:31.437)
Okay.

Ann (20:49.751)
Right.

Ann & John (20:52.612)
You can't swing a cat without hitting an iguana. the other ones, know, like sea lions and that kind of thing, they'll be on beaches and wherever and they're so cute. They're really, really cute. But the really cool thing is that they're not going to run away from you. And so you get

Shannon (20:56.382)
Hahaha!

Ann (20:56.822)
Hehehehehe

Ann (21:16.258)
Right.

Ann & John (21:17.08)
opportunity. We're also photographers, so you know we take lots and lots of photos when we travel and I had, you know, I just stayed with a couple of the different, the baby sea lions and just took pictures over and over and over all kinds of pictures because they weren't going anywhere. They didn't run away, you know, and they were just sunning themselves and but it's, it is like nowhere else. It really is.

Ann (21:35.542)
Right, right.

Ann (21:43.724)
That's incredible to see. I just can't wait and can't imagine.

Shannon (21:50.541)
We'll make it happen, sis. We'll make it happen.

Ann (21:55.949)
we will. It will happen one of these days. So, yeah.

Shannon (22:00.599)
So traveling with a partner can be magical and also challenging. So what has traveling together taught you about your relationship?

Ann & John (22:11.494)
The luxury that we have as a couple is that we actually enjoy each other's company. We actually like being together. Not all couples can say that. And frankly, we have worked together in various capacities for virtually most of the time that we've known each other. so... Even before we were married, our background was broadcasting.

And so we met at one of the stations that we worked, a radio station that we And so we've always been together. We've always liked being together. so we've actually co-hosted morning shows together for many years. Traveling together is just a natural extension of what we do. but you're right, there have been some instances where things get a little tense with, you know, whether it's driving, getting lost, driving in Europe or

Ann (22:51.362)
Mmm. That's awesome.

Shannon (22:51.415)
Wonderful.

Ann & John (23:09.496)
or things like that? We had, well, we have lots of experiences with driving in Europe. But one of our first, think, was driving. drove the length pretty much of Italy. So we started in Venice, drove over to Milan and wherever and down Rome, over to Florence. so that particular day,

Ann (23:25.632)
wow.

Ann & John (23:36.258)
It was hard. Milan had been impossible to find anything to find our hotel. had been impossible. We had to abandon our car and go on foot to find our hotel. They had to send somebody from the hotel with him to find our car again and lead him to the parking garage. It was that bad. Yeah. And so we get to Florence and it had been such a rough day already. We got into our

Shannon (23:48.874)
my God.

Ann & John (24:04.838)
We had to go get help again to find the the hotel parking garage. And so they sent another guy out, you know, and this and these are people that are not Italian and they're not American. They're from some little country and, know, they don't speak any language. can speak necessarily. And so they put him in the car with us and they're guiding pointing over here. Turn left, turn wherever. Turn there. It looks like an alley. It's an alley. It looks like a sidewalk. No, no, no, no.

We get in, we get in our room and we sit down and he goes, oh, it's not supposed to be this way. Days of driving frustration finally took its toll. I was literally brought to tears, reduced to tears. he was cars. She's never let me live it When we have a trip that's getting a little hard, that's when one of us invokes is not supposed to be this way.

Ann (24:43.225)
Bright.

Ann (24:49.719)
Yeah, you were done.

Ann (24:54.263)
Hehehehehe

Ann (25:01.721)
I like that.

Ann & John (25:03.162)
Thus the title, Travel is No Vacation. Our book. But in any event, yes, so it does sometimes get a little dicey. And with that, when was it that you swore off driving in That was another driving in Europe trip. it was, it was when we couldn't find, first of all, we got lost driving.

Shannon (25:06.531)
yeah.

Ann (25:08.907)
Yeah, so.

Ann & John (25:32.822)
in France, up near Normandy and that area. And then when we were going to drop off the car in Paris, again, this time we were using a GPS that had the talking, turn left here, go another mile, turn left here. When we got to where it was supposed to be the drop-off, she said, you have arrived. No, there was no sign of the drop-off. We're in traffic near the Louvre.

Shannon (25:59.278)
You

Ann & John (26:01.286)
We're not there. So there had just been so much go wrong in that trip. I said, I am never driving again. so the next trip I did all the driving and it wasn't any easier. but we had, you know, so you have little meltdowns. What he forgot to mention as part of that trip is that we almost got hauled in, almost got towed because he drove where he was not supposed to drive.

Ann (26:03.254)
yeah, yeah.

Ann & John (26:28.94)
in Pamplona during Running of the Bulls. Yes, that was, I was the operator and that was all on me. The sign said, not enter, but we were like in a hurry or I thought, will be the shortcut. I went in and as soon as he does it, went, what did you just do? And I looked in the rear view mirror and there was a police car behind us and the lights came on. And so we pull over, they come over.

Shannon (26:32.051)
my gosh.

Ann (26:51.249)
no!

Ann & John (26:57.016)
and they want to see his driver's license. And this was a trip that we neglected to get the international driver's permit. And so he hands them our Indiana driver's license and the guy goes, this is no good. And we're like, okay, now what? We don't have, and he said driver's permit. We don't have one. And he's like consulting, doesn't speak much English.

Shannon (26:57.549)
You

Ann (27:11.713)
Hehehehehe

Shannon (27:12.616)
Hahaha!

Ann & John (27:24.836)
He's like consulting the other people, know, other cops around him. And so it want us out of the car. And I get out and I don't speak Spanish. And only thing I could do is go, porfavor porfavor So I could think of and I was absolutely sure that they were going to come the car. I'm already taking

Shannon (27:42.913)
Yeah!

Ann (27:43.201)
Hehehehe. Hehehehe.

Ann (27:49.826)
All you in.

Ann & John (27:53.318)
our maps and our personal belongings out of the glove compartment. I'm ready to go all the way and they're going to impound the car and she's outside pleading the case as best she can. So they all get together and there's like three of them and they're they're talking to each other in Spanish and and I'm standing there, know, please. So the guy with the best English comes over and he goes, where you go from here? And I said, France. And he goes.

take your car back to the hotel and don't drive it again. And so they let us go, that's what we did. And we went on to France, but we decided later what happened was they had so many drunks around. mean, that is what running in the bulls is about. It is another reason to drink much like Oktoberfest and you know, we name off because we've been to all those events. And so they decided we...

Ann (28:37.389)
Right.

Shannon (28:37.834)
Mm-hmm.

Ann (28:41.709)
Yep.

Ann & John (28:48.228)
there would be way too much paperwork for them if they called in these two Americans that just didn't have a driver's permit for Europe. then it wasn't worth their time. So we think they let us go, no ticket, no anything, because we didn't have that. Because if we had had that, we would have gotten a ticket. So is it any wonder that I had sworn off ever driving again in Europe, which frankly lasted one One trip, then he went back.

Ann (29:12.921)
Yeah, well, it was just one of those things.

Ann & John (29:17.262)
But as far as as far as traveling together, we do have our own sort of specialties. She does a lot of the choosing of the donations or destinations, know, the trip planning. The putting it together. I do a lot of the research about the local public transportation and despite what we just talked about, the mapping and getting around.

and navigation and things like that. So we do have our, we each have our own strengths which work well as a team when we travel. And he has a great sense of direction and he's very tall. He's six foot three. So in a crowd, I never lose him, especially if we're in Asia. No losing.

Ann (29:54.231)
Definitely.

Ann (30:03.448)
Yes.

Ann (30:09.869)
I imagine you towered above a few people there.

Ann & John (30:12.516)
Yes, absolutely.

Shannon (30:12.621)
Yeah, exactly. Well, we know all about driving in Europe. We were in Scotland a couple of years ago and we're much like you. We have our strengths and weaknesses together when we travel. I'm the planner navigator because Ann can't read a map Although she tries to say she can, but she can't. And she's the one that picks like,

Ann & John (30:22.264)
You

Shannon (30:41.857)
where we're going, all the eating places, all of that kind of thing. Yeah, and she's usually the driver since I'm the navigator. You can't do both, you know? And so, yeah, she was... Yeah, we had a lot of fun in Scotland driving around and as you know, in Europe,

Ann & John (30:44.708)
huh.

She's the pink finger.

Ann & John (30:53.955)
Nope, nope, you cannot. That's right.

Ann (30:58.979)
That's where we get into it sometimes. It's so bad.

Shannon (31:10.283)
The roundabouts are freaking everywhere.

Ann & John (31:12.128)
impossible. yeah, they can be and you know, like in Paris, they are they're 10 lanes deep. And with big huge signs, you know, arrows, arrows everywhere. And you're going around in a bunch of traffic. And if you're over here, and you need to be over here, well, you're going to be going around three or four times. Yeah.

Ann (31:13.433)
my God, they're awful. They're awful.

Ann (31:25.475)
Yeah. Yeah.

Shannon (31:30.327)
Yeah.

Ann (31:35.107)
Good luck. Yeah, we did.

Shannon (31:36.871)
Exactly. We did that a bunch and made it into a joke because about the second pass around I was like, look, there's Big Ben. there's Big Ben again. Even though we were in Scotland, but I was referencing national lampoons.

Ann (31:44.566)
every time.

Ann & John (31:53.793)
Oh yeah, for sure. Oh yeah, we did a lot of traffic in this bit.

Yeah, it's very difficult. mean, we have certainly in our country, we have traffic everywhere too. But you know, you don't speak the language. You can't necessarily always read the signs. And, you know, and it's unfamiliar territory. And there's a lot of traffic in those big cities. You know, we've done it in Paris, we've done it in Rome, Rome's almost as bad as Paris to drive. And, you know, just don't do it.

Ann (32:10.094)
Right.

Ann (32:21.111)
Yeah, I did.

Shannon (32:21.793)
Yes.

Ann (32:25.273)
Well, yeah.

Ann & John (32:29.54)
That's what I tell people. Don't do it. It's not for the faint of heart.

Ann (32:34.381)
Yeah, no, it is definitely not. And you know, they have so much public transportation and trains and buses there that you literally could go to Europe and not ever have to drive.

Shannon (32:42.934)
Mm-hmm.

Ann & John (32:45.904)
And many people do, and we are travel agents as well. And so, when I have somebody that says, hey, I think we wanna drive. Have you ever driven in Europe before? No. They think it's easy. You drive here, think it's gonna be the same. It's not. I never encourage that.

Ann (32:47.822)
Mm-hmm.

Ann (33:01.55)
Yeah.

Shannon (33:05.079)
Mm-mm.

Ann (33:05.081)
It's not.

Shannon (33:07.851)
No, it's not.

Ann (33:08.117)
No, but if you do, one thing I did before Scotland was I looked up all of their road signs so I would know what they meant, you know, and that helped me a lot. So yeah.

Ann & John (33:16.77)
Uh-huh, right. Mm-hmm. Yes, right, right.

Shannon (33:22.071)
Yeah, and definitely do not recommend driving on the little islands in Scotland. If you go out to the outer islands, the Hebrides and stuff, you do not wanna be driving yourself around those little islands. Let me tell you, we were scared to death.

Ann (33:23.929)
But how do you?

Ann & John (33:30.246)
All right.

Ann (33:32.472)
Yes.

Ann (33:36.397)
No, there were some turns on those islands where you're going around literally the top of a craggy mountain and you cannot see what's coming at you. And it's barely enough room for two cars. Somebody's gotta pull over to let the other one by. So, you know, I'm driving and Shannon's like, we can't even see if someone's coming. I'm like, I know, but believe me.

Ann & John (33:37.646)
Right.

Ann & John (33:48.826)
Right. Yeah.

Shannon (33:52.653)
Mm-mm.

Ann & John (33:55.174)
Thank

Ann (34:06.559)
if they come, we'll stop, but we're just gonna go. Yeah, it was.

Ann & John (34:08.622)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's another another time we drove in. We did a big trip. It was mostly driving and we were in Wales and I'm driving and the curbs are real sharp. So you get real close and of course you're on the other side of the road and all of that. And I hit a curb and got a flat tire, hit it hard and the tire starts going.

Ann (34:35.553)
no.

Ann & John (34:38.87)
And so we pull over and I call him, call in the rental company and you know, not there's no answer or whatever. So he starts changing the tire and and he's he's, you know, working on the tire and whatever. And at one point I was having a little trouble with one of the lug nuts on one of the one of the front tires near the hood of the car. And I was doing that and I slipped and.

hit my head right on the hood of the car. And I heard it. I'm not anywhere near him, you know, and I, and I heard the noise and, he was, he was already not real thrilled with me because I had hit a few other curbs because you can't help it. You can't help it. I don't know about that, but in any event, this particular one was bad. And so anyway,

Ann (35:09.377)
Ugh.

Shannon (35:10.182)
my gosh. Wow.

Shannon (35:25.089)
Hahaha!

Ann (35:25.305)
Bye.

You can't, can you? It's terrible.

Ann & John (35:36.932)
He gets a change. get back in the car. We get to where we're going. And the next morning he goes into and he's taking a shower and I'm in there getting, putting a face on and he comes out of the shower and I looked and I went, my God. Black eye.

Shannon (35:56.119)
my gosh. Wow.

Ann (35:56.82)
my God.

Ann & John (35:58.054)
I put makeup on him every morning. Get up and I put makeup to cover it all up. And it was my fault, you know, I took blame, but he was wearing makeup for that trip just to do it. So it didn't look like I beat him up or something.

Ann (36:03.427)
That's hilarious.

Ann (36:08.953)
You

Ann (36:16.739)
That's hilarious, you guys. So how do you guys navigate differences when you're just overtired, you're jet-lagged, and completely out of your comfort zone?

Shannon (36:19.565)
That's great.

Ann & John (36:30.618)
take a deep breath and and if necessary don't talk for a while scream yeah I do tend to get if if something's bothering me or for having a thing I just tend to get quiet quiet and hope hope that goes away yeah I think you know we we have a generally really good way of I think dealing with each other

Shannon (36:37.943)
You

Ann & John (36:59.33)
and knowing, okay, he's not in a real good mood right now, I understand that, or I'm not, or whatever. And I don't know, I think it has always just worked out. One of us might feel better than the other, and that helps. When something has happened or whatever to one of us, then the other steps up a little bit to make sure everything gets handled in some way.

And things do happen and you just got to step up. I don't know that, I think if we're both really, really tired, you just got to stop. I mean, you really, you can't force yourself to go on. You've got to stop and re-energize yourself in some.

Shannon (37:45.676)
Yeah.

Ann (37:46.137)
Exactly.

Ann & John (37:47.438)
Hmm

Shannon (37:48.375)
How has meeting people across cultures shifted the way you see difference?

Ann & John (37:55.01)
I think what we have found is there, I think Ann sort of referenced it earlier, that we found that there aren't as many differences as one might imagine with these different cultures. People around the world are interested in many of the same things on that Trans-Siberian Railway trip. We were in Siberia.

at a town called Lisvianca on Lake Bacall. And it was sort of a, I wouldn't call it a beach, it was a real rocky area, but there were people that day, this was April, it was a sunny day, relatively warm, and people were just there on the beach with their dogs cooking out, there were food vendors. mean, is Siberia, this is Russia, people in America have this image of it as something completely

Barron and Stark and whatever. And we were there and it was like you were on the Jersey Shore or something. You know, it's just people on a beach having fun. And that same trip, our experience in Tiananmen Square. Yeah, so it ended in Beijing. And we had been to Beijing before, but it had been quite a few years before. And it was a Sunday and we walk a lot when we travel.

So we walked cities. I mean, we'd been known to walk 20 miles in the city. And so we were walking and we got to Tiananmen Square and you do go through some security and that kind of thing. And then we got out into the square Sunday, beautiful Sunday afternoon. And there were all these families everywhere. And they were picnicking and just hanging out, doing what families do all over the world, certainly, you know, the US. And they were, you know, they were

Ann (39:25.997)
Yeah.

Ann & John (39:50.106)
probably 99 % Chinese, but many of them clearly were Chinese tourists. were people not from Beijing, they were from China, but they were there. They were taking pictures of themselves in front of the Forbidden City and they were taking pictures of each other. There was a little kid in a stroller with a selfie stick taking pictures of himself. these are Chinese people, but they're doing the same things that...

Shannon (40:12.51)
my gosh.

Ann (40:13.601)
Hehehehehe

Ann & John (40:19.118)
Anybody else does the rank and file Chinese person is just out having fun being a tourist in their own country. And we found a whole bunch of these people, families and whatever. We we tend to stand out a little, especially in a situation like that. And he's, you know, six, three. And they wanted to get their picture taken with us. And so we had actual families that would that came over and one of them would they had them all lined up near us.

And one of them would be the designated shooter. And they come over and take, you know, take pictures of us, the Americans with their family. There was this woman that came over and she didn't speak any English. And she had, she had her phone on a selfie stick and she motioned to me like this. And I went, sure. So I assumed she wanted to take a selfie of the two of us. Just a picture. And just a picture. And the next thing you know, she, she starts this thing up.

Ann (41:12.099)
Yeah.

Ann & John (41:16.388)
and she puts her arm around me like this and we start moving around. And he was shooting it and because we didn't know what was happening. So she finishes and stops it and she gives me the, you know, give me a minute sign and she does something and plays it. And she has made a music video with she and I in Tiananmen Square with the Forbidden City behind us to some, you know,

Shannon (41:20.737)
my gosh.

you

Ann (41:25.145)
Right.

Ann & John (41:46.079)
music, know, pop music of some sort, she made herself a little music video with an American.

Ann (41:52.663)
Wow

Ann & John (41:53.766)
And so, yeah, because they do, you know, we can say, I think with some amount of certainty that people around the world do like America, they want to know about America, they want to talk to Americans. What happens in America affects them. And so, you know, like we traveled to Rwanda and Ethiopia in 2016, and both tour guides

Shannon (41:54.251)
That's incredible!

Ann (42:07.981)
Yes.

Ann & John (42:21.25)
We had one tour guide in each that stayed with us the whole time. They both wanted to talk about our election that year. And that was Hillary Clinton and Trump. And they wanted to know all about it and how we got those two candidates and who we thought was going to win. they wanted to know all about it. Same with our Russian guide in 2019 when we did the Trans-Siberian Railway. She came in on our cabin.

which our cabin was about this big and there were four of us in there. She came in there and sat down with us and she wanted to talk about politics in America. because she's Russian and our politics and our leaders and all matter to them. everybody, I had that experience when I lived in Iran. People like Americans wanna know about Americans, they wanna learn English. There's, I would say that is...

Shannon (42:54.904)
You

Ann & John (43:20.784)
pretty much the way it is around the world.

Ann (43:24.535)
Yeah, I agree with that. It's amazing. So you guys have spent time with people and cultures all over the world. What have you learned about humanity that most surprised you?

Ann & John (43:41.414)
too, we are more alike than we're different. We have the same needs, wants, desires for a family. They have.

people have great senses of humor all over the world. We had a great tour guide in Bhutan. This guy, he spoke perfect English and had only been to China and Bhutan. It's not like he's traveled or studied anywhere. And he was just hilarious. I mean, really a funny guy. And we've had other tour guides that we've stayed in touch with that are...

equally funny and we talk about all of that in our book. Maybe we should talk about our maybe our all-time favorite story and it involves Cambodia. Yes, we were touring Cambodia and we were driving near the area near Siem Reap and Angkor Wat and we were sort of in this rural area and we saw a number of houses and these were essentially small shacks probably 12 by 12 size

shacks on stilts. And so we asked our guide if we could pull over and just sort of look up close at one of these houses. And take pictures. Yeah and take pictures. so we did. We pulled over to the area near a side of the road where someone was cooking something near the side of the road. And we went back and saw this small shack. It was a man sitting there.

Not wearing a shirt, Cambodian man obviously didn't speak any English of any kind. And his wife was sitting nearby in their home. Two room house. Yeah, and she was weaving mats that they sleep on. so we, through our interpreter, through our guide, asked the man if we could see his house and take pictures. And he said yes, and so we did. And then...

Ann & John (45:45.766)
When we finished, as a thank you, we gave him $5. Just a little, you know, hey, thanks for letting us, and we gave him $5. You take it from here. And so he took it and threw on his shirt and ran out to the road. And as it turns out, it was his daughter that was cooking a sugar-like candy. They grew sugar cane behind their house That is what they did for a living.

and they had a sugarcane field and what they would do is cook it on the side of the road and sell these little candy pieces to tours So he runs out, he tells her to package us up a couple of things that they normally sell to give to us because he would not take $5 from us without giving us something in return. This is a man who had virtually nothing in the world. If you saw his

Ann (46:37.827)
Right.

Ann & John (46:44.358)
two room just this tiny little shack. A bunch of kids. And he couldn't, he wouldn't accept our money without giving us something in return. And it was just the sweetest gesture that you could ever imagine. I mean, when you go some places, all they want, they, you know, bug the heck out of you for to buy something. You know, this man gave us something really, um,

Ann (46:54.179)
in return.

Ann (47:06.178)
Right? Yes.

Ann & John (47:13.286)
You can't put a price tag on. A few moments in his home, taking pictures of he and his wife. And one of our all time favorite pictures is a picture of him sitting on the floor of his house without a shirt on. And he just has the most joyous smile on his face. And it's such a great shot that John took. And we got in the car and both of us teared up because it was such a sweet moment.

Ann (47:16.439)
Right.

Shannon (47:39.468)
yeah.

Ann (47:41.805)
Yeah.

Ann & John (47:42.342)
And it's so memorable to us. We found the Cambodian people to be just the nicest, sweetest people. Our guide, Seth, was his name. his father was an interpreter during the Vietnam War. They were involved in it as well in their country, and with the Khmer Rouge and all of that. And his father one day disappeared. Never saw him again.

And so he learned English, became a tour guide, and you know, so he has a sad story himself. so another thing that we did while we were there, and we always encourage people to try to give back or do something when you travel, we saw these wells in different places and they would have a sort of a sign over it with some names, a family name and where they're from.

Shannon (48:13.449)
my gosh.

Ann & John (48:42.446)
well donated by John and Mary Smith, Albuquerque, New Mexico, whatever. So we asked Seth about it and he said, well, when people see how poor the country is and that a lot of areas live with and they have no wells, no water, no clean water, that they will sometimes donate and have a well built, a well dug. And we said, okay, we want to do that.

And so he arranged it. The next day he took us to this area that the government of Cambodia had given to the poor and disabled to live on. And they're, you know, they live in makeshift homes there and there's no well. It's like, you know, miles to walk to get water of any kind. they, you know, if they drink the water near them, they could get sick and even die. And so we picked out a spot where they thought would be a good place to put it.

were all the people in that little village. And they had already been told that we were coming, the people that live there. And they started following us and bowing to us. And obviously we couldn't communicate with them, but they were bowing. It was really sweet but uncomfortable at the same time because plus that rule is like a utility bill for us. And part of that cost, our guide told us, was the cost of putting the sign there with our name on it.

Shannon (49:52.469)
my gosh.

Ann (49:59.149)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Shannon (49:59.704)
Mm-hmm.

Ann & John (50:10.116)
And we said, don't need the sign. We don't need our own publicity. And he said, no, no, no, no. The sign is so that other people will see what is done. And frankly, that's what caught our attention. We had seen that other sign and that's why we wanted to do it. So that's why we let them put the sign up. So after we got home, I think it was another week or two after we got home, we got an email from Seth and he sent pictures of the well. It was all.

Ann (50:23.789)
Right.

Shannon (50:25.034)
Mm-hmm.

Ann & John (50:38.566)
all working and everything and a bunch of village people were standing around it. Not the village people, because that's something. There was a policeman, a construction worker, a biker. But the people of the village were standing around it they have the sign up there with their name on it and they spelled John J-H-O-N rather than J-O-H-N, which is kind of Cambodian, you know. And so it's something that we do encourage people that, you know, if you look

Shannon (50:46.795)
Yeah.

Ann (50:47.193)
Right.

Shannon (50:58.541)
Yeah.

Ann (50:59.373)
Yeah.

Ann & John (51:07.428)
There are ways you can leave something substantial behind. Instead of bringing souvenirs home, you leave something behind. We encourage that when we do give talks and presentations about our travels. And that is something that we've done over the years that we did a fundraiser for an orphanage in Kenya one time before we went to Kenya. And we took medicine and money and clothing and.

toys and that kind of thing to this orphanage in Nairobi. And so, you know, you don't have to go to that extreme, but there are things you can do while you're there that can make a difference in somebody's life.

Ann (51:47.673)
Right? Exactly.

Shannon (51:47.79)
Absolutely, yeah. There's opportunities everywhere that you go to, you just gotta look, be on the lookout for it and get involved. Yeah, take that step to get involved and do something. yeah. So your trip on the Trans-Siberian Railway was incredible. The documentary's great, but what drew you to that journey?

Ann & John (51:55.225)
Yeah. You bet.

Ann (52:00.727)
Yes, that's amazing.

Ann & John (52:06.491)
Mm-hmm.

Ann (52:11.747)
Mm-hmm.

Ann & John (52:14.242)
Mongolia, because we had not been to Mongolia. We had been to Russia and China and I had been wanting to do Mongolia and then I saw this was a thing. Trans-Siberian Railway. Wow. Wouldn't that be kind of a cool adventure? Yeah, and as I think she had mentioned earlier, we had already been to Moscow before. We'd been to China, I think, by that time at least a couple of times before, but

You know, it's always great going back to these really fascinating places. Mongolia was going to be new. So that was probably the big draw. So that to have something, all of that sort of in a nice package, made that it's so nice. Yeah, well. Let's be clear. While we're in the neighborhood, we're not going to do just the Trans-Siberian Railway. We actually started that trip.

by going to Azerbaijan and then to Uzbekistan before. Baku, Azerbaijan, very, very pretty and modern, enjoyed that a lot. And Uzbekistan, we did Samarkand, which is ancient city on the Silk Road. it has all kinds of great buildings and.

and whatever. So that was really interesting as well. But yeah, we tacked that on the beginning.

Ann (53:43.449)
I love that. So what did traveling that route teach you guys? Not just about geography, but about patience and perspective.

Ann & John (53:53.19)
Well, it certainly taught us to accept uncomfortable situations. The first four days of that trip on the Trans-Siberian Railway, we lived on the train. And as we mentioned, our cabin was literally a six foot by six foot room with bunk beds on either side.

a tiny little table, a little communal table to put your personal belongings or food or your drink or whatever. And there was essentially no bathing. mean, they had no shower. had a toilet and a sink, but there was no showers or baths. It was kind of a wet nap kind of thing, a sponge bath. So you just sort of had to get your mind in the right place and realize

Ann (54:42.605)
Yep.

Ann & John (54:50.374)
this is what it's going to be for four days. And you learn to live with that. days in a row. Yeah. And you learn that you can live with it. You can get through it. Well, there's a thing that I do in my head. I have to set my head right because I'm really a rather impatient person. And even long flights are like, oh my God. It's a necessary evil. And when we did that around the world trip,

that did India, Tibet, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Singapore, and then home. So that was all the way around the world. I knew it was gonna really be tough. Lots of flights, lots of long flights. And I had a little chat with myself, and I needed to accept this differently. I had traveled my whole life, but I never got all that comfortable with long flights and all that.

Shannon (55:37.78)
Hahaha

Ann & John (55:48.794)
And it just becomes, you know, setting your head straight that this is part of the journey. And we got it way easier than they did it hundreds of years ago when they'd get on a ship or something and they'd be sailing for weeks or whatever. So certainly I can suck it up and sit in a little tight seat for 15 hours or whatever I have to do. So it really is.

sometimes about mindset. And with that, I think you learn patience. And I knew that this Trans-Siberian Railway was going to be long and dull in some cases. We did make stops and that kind of thing, but I knew it was not going to be easy. But I took it as not only part of the journey, but also kind of a vacation from, know, because I'm usually hooked up completely. I'm still on my phone or I'm still checking email or what.

No, I'm just, you know, this is what we're doing. And took books to read and, whatever, just to make the time go faster. And we, don't know, I think it was a good lesson in patience to get somewhere. It was also interesting to see all the different, even within the group of maybe 14, 16 people that we had in our group.

the wide variety of nationalities. I think we were one of just a handful of Americans. There were some British, Australian, and it was fascinating to see the something that we point out in the documentary is that at one point in the dining area of the car to kill some time, there were two Russian women.

to Australian women and the four of them were playing the classic game of American capitalism, travel monopoly. So was just, it was a really interesting thing to observe different cultures, Russian, Australian, playing an American game. it was just, was, that's what a lot of what I took away from that trip was just how similar.

Ann (57:52.154)
Ann & John (58:10.148)
people from different cultures are when it comes to their traveling or their entertainment or their the way they spend their leisure time.

Ann (58:19.897)
All right.

Shannon (58:21.163)
Yeah, that's great when you see that, that you have this image of what you think people do or whatever from other countries in their free time and then to see that they're doing an activity that you yourself would do. That's great. So your book is called Travel is No Vacation, a Love Story. And the title says so much.

Ann & John (58:35.564)
huh, absolutely. yeah. Yep, for sure.

Ann & John (58:43.812)
Travel is no big deal, Yes. Yes?

Shannon (58:50.347)
So what does the title mean and why was it so important for you to tell the story honestly and not just the beautiful parts?

Ann & John (58:58.694)
I have been saying for quite some time that very phrase, travel is no vacation. And I've actually said it to some clients, know, ones that want to do something that's a little more adventurous and things go wrong and you know, whatever. it's, know, travel is no vacation if you really travel. A vacation is going to a beach or just laying around or going to an all-inclusive and just

Sitting there and drinking Mai Tais or getting on a cruise which we love cruises But i've done many but they're but they're easier, you know, they are and so so many things can go wrong and so that's where the title comes from and think that I I tried to talk him into writing the book for some time because I have written a book. we have we do a lot of writing.

for magazines and newspapers. And I was an editor of a local paper at one point and we owned a magazine in the area at one point as well. And we had gathered all these stories and I just felt like we had something to say that is honest about travel.

I think it's uplifting because we don't say negative things about anybody really. mean, there's no, there's nobody we hated. There's no awful anything. Things happen. And there's, you know, a lot of nice, wonderful people we've met around the world. Be sure and read our chapter on our favorite trip because I think that's my, maybe my favorite chapter as well, or maybe our favorite day. We have a favorite day in our whole lives. And that's also in the book.

But I just felt like we had something to say about travel. Travel is important, I think. And I think I always say that it is an education like none other. It makes history come alive. It makes geography personal. And it is a cultural bridge. And so I just felt like, you know, we should write some of these things down and share in the writing. And so you'll see it's in both are it's in.

Ann & John (01:01:17.958)
My voice will be writing some part of it, then he'll take over and write another part. We have a whole chapter on COVID, traveled during COVID. We didn't stop traveling. did more. We just traveled more domestically because international travel was completely out of the question. We got sent home from Ireland in March of 2020. Got sent home. And then went back in 2022 and actually fulfilled it. stayed for a week and a half.

Shannon (01:01:23.955)
Yeah.

Ann (01:01:32.152)
Right.

Ann (01:01:38.745)
No, man.

Shannon (01:01:39.852)
Wow.

Ann & John (01:01:48.442)
And, but you know, that's one whole chapter. And there's, and stories in that chapter that were personal to him because he tried to hook up with what he thought might be family. Yeah, my heritage goes back to Ireland. And so I tried to find some roots and met someone there who's a woman whose maiden name was Cinnamon. Turns out we weren't actually related.

Ann (01:02:09.059)
Yeah.

Ann & John (01:02:17.817)
but it was just such a wonderful, warm meeting with her and her husband. They invited us to their home. They didn't know us, and we sat in their home, and his name was Archie, and Archie made tea sandwiches for us. And we had scones and coffee. It was fantastic. And we sat and talked for a couple hours. He was talking to her, and they were looking at all their...

Shannon (01:02:27.97)
wow.

Ann (01:02:39.203)
Yeah.

Shannon (01:02:40.269)
Incredible.

Ann & John (01:02:47.514)
their family history and that sort of thing. And Archie and I chatted and they let us in their home. were nothing but just sweet, sweet people. so anyway, John wrote that part of the story because it was personal to him. So we sort of chose which who was going to write what part of everything.

Ann (01:02:56.729)
That's crazy.

Ann & John (01:03:16.102)
There's another trip that we were on and frankly my ex-husband, my first husband who is the father of my two children passed away while we were gone. And it was heart-wrenching and that was mine. Heart-wrenching that she would get the call from one of her sons that his father

Her ex-husband had passed away. So and there's a lot involved in that and that's a there's a chapter in it about that so it's all very personal and I just I don't know I just felt it was time John's a great writer. I felt it was time we wrote everything down and It is better than I than I thought it would be I love that

Shannon (01:03:46.699)
Right.

Ann (01:04:06.393)
That's so awesome. What do you hope readers take away from your book?

Ann & John (01:04:13.944)
Hopefully much of what we've talked about here today about how you know people of different cultures You don't need to look at them with fear and trepidation because they're probably a lot like you and they have the same hopes and fears and and enjoy many of the same things that you do and just Traveling is just such a such an eye-opener

And I think, you know, we're kind of in the mode these days of there are people in the world that are our enemies. And maybe the government is, but the people are not. And the example being Tiananmen Square, you know, which isn't that long ago. And here we are. We were like the focus that afternoon. Everybody want to get their picture taken with us. And so I really

Shannon (01:05:06.807)
Yeah.

Ann & John (01:05:09.19)
I think that it is hopefully uplifting that, you know, we're a lot alike and we should get to know other cultures and be accepting of them. And maybe people will get some inspiration of places to go. Like the Galapagos.

Ann (01:05:25.795)
Right. Yes, there you go, John.

Shannon (01:05:27.597)
Yeah, exactly. Keep putting that out there, John. Thanks. Now I feel pressured.

Ann (01:05:34.711)
Hehehehehe

Shannon (01:05:39.821)
So if someone listening fills the pool to see the world, but maybe they're afraid, afraid of change, discomfort, the unknown, what do you want to tell them?

Ann & John (01:05:54.054)
I would say that everybody should leave this country at least once in their life so that you know that we are the best country on earth. have so much to be thankful, grateful for. we live in a way that most people do not. And so I think you learn to appreciate more by getting outside the country.

if you have a problem with always having to be in your comfort zone, travel may not be for you. so you can read about it in our book and not actually get on a plane or a boat or whatever. but I would say that, you know, if you have great fear, I wouldn't put somebody in a situation of forcing you to, know, but if you have that desire to see other parts of the world, you should do it, do it while you can't, because it's definitely worth

Shannon (01:06:32.087)
There you go.

Ann (01:06:32.089)
There you go.

Ann (01:06:53.209)
It's incredible to immerse yourself in other cultures and learn about them and at the same time they're asking you questions about America. They want to know about us too. So can I do some rapid fire questions real quick with you guys? Ready? All right. Mountains or beach?

Ann & John (01:06:56.614)
Mm-hmm.

Ann & John (01:07:03.47)
yes. Yep, for sure.

Ann & John (01:07:10.188)
Okay. Yep.

Mountains.

Ann (01:07:17.037)
Yeah, cities or countryside.

Ann & John (01:07:19.844)
boy

Depends on the city. Yeah. Rome, Paris. You have to do, you can't just do countryside and think you've seen Italy, even though Tuscany is gorgeous. Cinque Terre, gorgeous. Amalfi Coast, gorgeous. You have to see Rome. You have to see Florence. You have to. I love Venice. I can't. rapid fire. I'm sorry.

Ann (01:07:27.349)
Exactly.

Ann (01:07:38.521)
true.

Ann (01:07:50.807)
no, no, that is what we do here, guys. We are easygoing, we are off the cuff, nothing is really structured.

Ann & John (01:07:58.18)
Well, you can't choose, I guess my point is you really can't choose between those two. You have to do both.

Ann (01:08:03.757)
You can't. You're right. You're right. Train, travel or road trips.

Ann & John (01:08:10.34)
Road trips. like train travel, but I like our road trips. Planning.

Ann (01:08:14.925)
Yeah, me too. So planning or spontaneity?

Shannon (01:08:20.117)
You

Ann (01:08:20.567)
I knew that just from our conversation. Favorite place you ever visited. The number one top.

Ann & John (01:08:29.112)
Okay, so we have our favorite country and we also have our favorite day, which is a particular place. And so our favorite country, well, my favorite country is Italy. Yeah, Italy. And our favorite place that is our favorite day is Easter Island. That tiny little spit of land in the South Pacific that's the most remote inhabited place in the world. And it's amazing.

Shannon (01:08:47.405)
yeah,

Ann (01:08:49.401)
yes. I've watched so much documentaries on that. It's amazing.

Shannon (01:08:52.004)
huh.

Ann & John (01:08:57.998)
We rode around on a scooter on New Year's Day and it was like we were the last people on earth and it was absolutely awesome. Magical.

Shannon (01:09:06.957)
Wow.

Ann (01:09:09.347)
That is so cool. So, me too. What is the least favorite place you've ever visited? I'm just curious.

Shannon (01:09:10.445)
I would love that.

Ann & John (01:09:20.378)
there'd be a bunch. And, you know, they all have some redeeming value, but I'm not real big on, like Malaysia and, and some of those kind of places not I mean, it's not awful or anything. It's just that there are so many people and it's so hard to get around.

India is not my favorite. It's there's history. You go there you that's where you have to go to see the Taj Mahal which is magnificent but in general it's just it is loud crowded it is it can be a little sensory overload.

Ann (01:09:46.039)
Really?

Ann (01:09:49.741)
Right.

Shannon (01:10:01.847)
Yeah.

Ann (01:10:01.951)
Yeah, yeah. Interesting.

I that. I kind of always thought I wanted to go to India, but maybe not.

Ann & John (01:10:11.462)
Oh, go. You actually. Well, you know what I what I always tell people is I am glad I've been everywhere I've been, but there are places I won't go back. Now I've been in India a couple of times. So and the first time was when I was living in Tehran and it was beautiful compared to Tehran. So I had to choose. Probably Tehran would be my least favorite. But.

Shannon (01:10:13.193)
I wanna go.

Ann (01:10:16.249)
You

Ann & John (01:10:37.926)
But it's still, it's just one of those places that is so, it's so loud. It's so, there's a constant movement and so many people and I always feel bad. I don't know because there's a lot of poverty in that part of

Ann (01:10:54.339)
Yes, exactly. That is hard to witness. when you come home, when you come home, it makes you more appreciative of everything that you have and sad for them, you know.

Ann & John (01:10:58.626)
It is without trying to something about it. When one person

Shannon (01:11:02.295)
Yeah.

Ann & John (01:11:08.23)
Absolutely. As much as we love traveling everywhere, we do love coming home. Yep, for sure.

Ann (01:11:16.409)
Yes. Yep.

Shannon (01:11:17.623)
Yeah, exactly. So John and Ann, thank you for reminding us that travel isn't about escape. It's about engagement, connection, choosing to grow together. So where can people find out more about you, pick up your book?

Ann & John (01:11:35.238)
You can go to Travelisnovacation.com, more information there. And you can find the book on Amazon and barnsandnoble.com.

Shannon (01:11:49.281)
Okay, perfect. And to our listeners, whether you travel across the globe or across your town, the real journey is how travel changes the way we see people and ourselves. And we'll link Travel is No Vacation, a Love Story and John and Ann's info in the show notes and on our website. So take a moment to share this story with someone you think needs to hear it. Leave a review. It truly helps these stories reach the people who need them the most.

And until next time, keep traveling your story and keep making memories for life.