The Power of Story: Turning Shame into Wisdom (feat. Kristan Swan)

Shannon (00:01.682)
Welcome back to Travel Time Stories with Shannon, where real journeys meet real stories and real healing happens one conversation at a time. I'm your host Shannon, coming to you from the Lone Star State of Texas. Some weeks I open up and share pieces of my own life story from my travel adventures to the winding road of healing and personal growth.

Other weeks, I'm joined by my best friend and co-host, Ann as we sit down with special guests to share their experiences, insights, and expertise to help all of us along our own journeys. Today, Ann is here with me. Hey, Ann.

Ann (00:40.406)
Hey everybody.

Shannon (00:43.142)
And today we're talking about the inner journey, the one shaped by the stories we tell ourselves, the meaning we make from our experience, and the way curiosity can open doors that shame keeps closed. Our guest today is Kristan Swan. Kristan is a former business coach turned life and spiritual guide who helps people discover their truth, clarify their values,

and cultivate a curious intentional mindset. Through her journals and workshops, she empowers people to engage their creativity, honor their stories, and make choices aligned with who they really are. Kristan we're so glad you're here. Welcome to the show.

Kristan Swan (01:28.019)
thank you so much. And I am delighted to be here. I am so looking forward to this conversation together.

Ann (01:33.485)
We are too. We are really excited. So as we say on travel time stories, grab your beverage ladies and let's get into it.

Shannon (01:37.17)
Exactly.

Ann (01:50.126)
So Kristan, you started in business coaching and shifted into life and spiritual guidance. What led you to realize that people didn't just need better plans, they needed a different relationship with their own stories?

Kristan Swan (02:09.56)
Well, I know for myself and I learn by doing and oftentimes I learn by doing multiple times and I have to kind of come at it, come at these life lessons different ways, right? Before they really stick and what I was witnessing

so clearly and it's always easy to see these things in other people, right? I mean, we have this blind spot sometimes around our own kind of way of being. And so what was just such a gift around my business coaching is that I was working very, very closely with business owners and founders and

Shannon (02:41.543)
Mm-hmm.

Kristan Swan (02:53.07)
I was being hired usually because they were at an inflection point, that there had been either a series of issues or a big issue. And in my relationship with my clients, I recognized the patterns of behavior. And so there was a real, almost just a disconnect between what

kind of stated goals or ambitions my clients might have and their choices that they were making. And so they would be kind of behaving in the same manner and a little bit frustrated or just flat out, you know, kind of throwing their hands up in the air of why am I not getting the result that I'm looking for? And so...

having that, you know, ringside seats, so to speak, in real time with multiple people. I'm not just, it's not just one person that I'm seeing this, really pointed out to me how we have this opportunity in every moment we are presented with choices, right? And I mean, business owners,

Shannon (04:11.281)
Mm-hmm.

Kristan Swan (04:13.486)
are inundated. You can actually end up being kind of fatigued by the amount of decisions and choices that you need to make. But all of us, every moment we have choices. And if we are willing to, and I was not able to do this in my own life very well. So a lot of what I was observing were

were things that I needed to learn for myself. I just want to be clear. And, but I think that if we can really get curious with who we are, right? So kind of hit pause or get, get, get willing to spend some time about who am I, what matters to me? What, what is, what brings me joy? Where do I find meaning and purpose? And then with that,

kind of that knowledge, we can then really just incrementally start making these decisions and these choices that are much more in alignment with who we are and thus kind of getting us closer to those things that we're saying that we want. And I think also what happens too, I'll just add on that, that, you know, in my coaching practice, I would kind of do both and, right, which is,

Also, to really ask my clients, and I think this is relevant for every single one of us, whether or not you don't have to have a business. mean, you have the business of living, right? And to be, and this is where this story piece comes in so powerfully, is to be aware enough if we are...

Shannon (05:52.805)
Mm-hmm.

Kristan Swan (06:06.634)
if we are accepting kind of stories that are maybe not a good fit for us. And so again, when we're talking about living kind of more in alignment with ourselves, are we, know, thinking ahead in our goals and potentially our ambitions really our own or are they something that we've adopted because it's someone else has told us this is the thing to do.

Shannon (06:36.453)
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I've had those experiences in my own life as well.

Ann (06:39.883)
Yes it does.

Ann (06:45.25)
Yes.

Kristan Swan (06:46.702)
You know, we all have, right? And I think that I love that in the introduction, Shannon, you mentioned shame as such a, I just, know in my own life and my own experience where that shame that I have felt has either

has either just, I don't even want to get close to it, right? I don't want to examine kind of what is attached to that shame because it just doesn't feel good, right? I mean, gosh, you just want to run the other direction. And how often that disconnection from ourselves or that kind of that

lack of knowing who we really are can lead into situations that might have result in that discomfort of shame or guilt or just dissatisfaction too, right?

Shannon (08:01.799)
Yeah, and I think like for your story, people's stories, if someone's story has deeply rooted shame or guilt attached to whatever that part of their story is, that shapes your decisions.

Ann (08:03.202)
Yes.

Shannon (08:24.057)
in the rest of your story. And like you say, like you don't wanna, you don't wanna go towards something that makes you feel shame or guilt. So you do whatever you can to avoid that. And that in turn, you know, could send you off in a different direction than one that you were actually meant to go in and be more of a negative than a positive.

Kristan Swan (08:24.098)
Yeah.

Kristan Swan (08:44.418)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. mean, I think about, I...

I have been married three times. and my first two marriages ended in divorce. And although I was the one to initiate the divorce in each case, it came with so much, particularly my first divorce because

This is the father of my children. There was so much hope and so many dreams really riding on this success of this marriage, right? And this life essentially that I wanted to build with this other person and grow a family and

And then realizing that I got married probably much too young. I didn't know myself. And I initiated a divorce and that guilt and that shame I felt from being a failure in this...

Kristan Swan (10:17.804)
you know, this life and also the fact that I was affecting so many other lives in this choice to divorce, I was so deeply, deeply saddened and I could not, it was too much to face. so, you know, it's no surprise that I kind of ran headlong into

another marriage that was, again, I had not taken any of the time to get to know myself in that time. I just had spent a lot of time kind of pushing down those feelings that were so shameful.

Shannon (11:04.007)
And that's one thing that I hate that our society does is that

They make women that get a divorce, feel bad about themselves or that there's something wrong in getting a divorce and that kind of thing. And that is so far from the truth. And I hate that that's a stigma in our society about that. And like you say, because you were the one that initiated the ending, then you don't feel like you had the right.

Kristan Swan (11:19.662)
Mm-hmm.

Shannon (11:41.254)
to grieve that process because you were the one that made the process happen. So you didn't feel like you had the right to grieve. And that is also completely wrong. If any listeners listening right now, that is so wrong. Whether you are the one that initiates it or not, you have the right to grieve and you need to grieve and take that time for yourself.

Kristan Swan (11:43.532)
Right.

Kristan Swan (11:47.032)
Yes.

Kristan Swan (11:54.382)
Yes.

Shannon (12:08.187)
before, like you say, you move on to something else because if not, it's gonna end badly again.

Ann (12:15.981)
Yeah, you cannot make clear decisions.

Kristan Swan (12:19.528)
absolutely. you are essentially, you know, when, or for myself, I feel like there was, it's almost like doing battle with yourself, right? And so I couldn't, it's no wonder I was not making a choice that was really in the truth and the alignment of myself when I chose to get married again, because I hadn't, like as you were saying, so,

Shannon (12:32.561)
Mm-hmm.

Kristan Swan (12:49.358)
So eloquently, Shannon, I took that story from the society that we live in because I was the one who initiated this, I had no right to grieve, that it must have been, and there were all other sorts of stories from my family, right? That I must have been kind of impetuous, right? Or that I was somehow, I was,

to rash in my decision around this. And then also I was kind of operating in terms of getting married so young. I was operating from this story of trying to kind of rectify my own upbringing of having parents that really, you know, met at a very...

very critical time in their own development and they didn't really know each other that well and they got married and it's no surprise their marriage didn't really last that long, right? But I was gonna do better somehow, but I was trying to, I was essentially making this choice to do better without building that foundation of kind of self awareness and

Shannon (13:52.273)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Shannon (14:04.711)
Mm-hmm.

Kristan Swan (14:08.694)
And also trust. mean, I do think that's the other thing that particularly for women I find is that trusting yourself. Like I think that oftentimes we can know or we have an inkling of a feeling or of a knowing, but then trusting ourselves enough to act on it.

Shannon (14:33.991)
Yep, that is completely right too. Yeah, been there many times. I think most women have.

Ann (14:36.204)
Yes.

Kristan Swan (14:39.212)
Hahaha!

Ann (14:40.279)
Yeah.

I was just going to say.

Kristan Swan (14:43.534)
I know, I think we can all raise our hand here, right? We're like, yeah. yeah. And I will say, I mean, as I mentioned, I am, I'm now in my third marriage and I am so pleased to say that it's, I have made a

Ann (14:46.965)
I so too. Right?

Shannon (14:49.511)
Yep, exactly.

Ann (14:54.377)
I knew better why.

Shannon (14:56.743)
Exactly, yeah. So why do

Kristan Swan (15:13.294)
excellent choice this time. And I'm just, I'm so in love and so happy with my, my spouse and, he's a wonderful man. And, and, you know, there are these moments where we will reflect and think, Oh gosh, it wouldn't have been nice to have met earlier. Right. And, and we also

Ann (15:15.277)
awesome.

Ann (15:37.485)
Right.

Kristan Swan (15:41.358)
both of us are this, I'm not his first marriage either, are coming to this with this set of experiences that thankfully we have been able to finally, I mean, for myself, finally sit with those feelings, right? And sit with the shame, the guilt, the, all of that and integrate that.

into wisdom and experience. And so those experiences and those stories are still very relevant to who I am. I mean, they're extremely relevant to who I am today. And I think that one of the things I love to share with people and hopefully inspire people is you have

an opportunity to write a new page of your story in each moment. You truly do. And I know that, right? And part of the important kind of work, so to speak, is moving from the story being the defining

kind of feature of who you are to being more informative and as I was saying, more integrated into that wisdom that you have now.

Shannon (17:18.225)
Yep, exactly. And it's never too late to write a new page or start a new page, new chapter, whatever, in your book, in your story, because you will have many chapters throughout your life for your story, just exactly like a regular book does. You'll have many different chapters, and each chapter helps you build on who you are and who you become.

Ann (17:19.852)
Mm-hmm.

Kristan Swan (17:27.895)
No.

Kristan Swan (17:33.366)
Yeah!

Ann (17:33.963)
Yeah.

Yes.

Kristan Swan (17:45.322)
Absolutely. I mean, I am an avid reader and I love, I love to read. I read pretty, I read all genres and I do love fiction. so anyone out there who is also a fiction lover like myself or even non-fiction, right? It's like, think of the books that you enjoy the most, right? They're not the books where...

Shannon (18:10.491)
Mm-hmm.

Kristan Swan (18:11.982)
the main character is just like wakes up and it's all roses and sunshine every single day. I mean, gosh, that's a boring book. The books that you really love are those ones where there is this arc of, and sometimes there's several arcs. And so kind of if we could give ourselves enough

Shannon (18:22.457)
Exactly.

Shannon (18:31.441)
Mm-hmm.

Kristan Swan (18:42.19)
just enough kind of play to recognize that, we are not, know, just because we did something this way one time, we don't have to do it that way all the time. we can shift and you don't even have to wait till tomorrow morning, right? I mean, you can shift right now. And the thing I also like to, and I was thinking about this,

Ann (19:05.377)
right now.

Shannon (19:07.015)
Mm-hmm.

Kristan Swan (19:11.682)
this morning when I was out walking is, you know, just being willing to change our minds too and how giving ourselves permission essentially to change our minds. Cause I think if I think of one of the big stories that I grew up with from my particularly one of my grandmothers was, you know, number one, you needed to make

you needed to make choices very quickly, right? Because if you were, if you took too much time, it somehow implied that you were just, you weren't, you know, the sharpest tool in the shed. so you, you had to, had to be quick, quick, quick. And, and then once you'd made up your mind, right, you, you better stick with it or else you're going to be perceived as flaky or some, something, you know, unreliable and

Ann (19:49.101)
you

Kristan Swan (20:07.566)
Gosh, that's just not true. It's not true. You don't have to, you don't have to make choices on the fly. And, and if you, you know, and even if you really like research a choice, you still get to change your mind, right? Cause we, we make choices based on the information we have in that moment. And then we get new information and

Shannon (20:10.789)
Exactly.

Ann (20:12.567)
Yep.

Shannon (20:31.642)
Exactly.

Kristan Swan (20:36.418)
And I think that's the thing where I really kind of encourage people also to adopt like this creative mindset, right? Which is not about being artistic. It's about being willing to think beyond your own best thinking, so to speak, right? So be open, get curious about the information that you're getting when you've chosen one direction and be willing to say,

Shannon (20:55.528)
Mm-hmm.

Kristan Swan (21:05.39)
The new information I'm getting is saying, maybe I don't want to do this anymore. Maybe I want to go a different direction. Maybe I just want to take things more slowly. Whatever that is, it's all valid.

Shannon (21:25.692)
Yes. So what happens when someone realizes that they can revisit a story without rewriting the facts?

Kristan Swan (21:34.796)
Hmm. And this is, you know, I love this question because one of the things that I have been willing to unlearn and let go of is a belief that everything had to be categorized as good or bad, right? That there, that there was a need to

to assign some judgment to something. and I think that's, if you can suspend judgment, I think that it's much, you're on your way to revisiting a story and really learning from a story in a way that allows you to not, you're not,

adjusting the facts, right? But you're just, you're, you're witnessing and you are accepting.

Ann (22:45.611)
I think, you know, many people carry shame or guilt from past choices, but I think those emotions keep us stuck sometimes, don't you think?

Kristan Swan (22:56.418)
Yeah. Yeah. And I think I was just talking with a friend this, this week who is going through a divorce and is, and probably made some specific choices that, that led to the, you know, the dissolution of their marriage and, and carries that very heavily. and

And I'm not saying, I mean, as we mentioned, it's important to sit with these feelings and experience the discomfort, right? And there's a point at which, and it's gonna be different for each moment and each person, but there is a point at which that, I think that carrying of that story,

that weight of that story becomes a distraction from really growing and also staying present to what is. Does that make sense?

Ann (24:11.378)
Very much so. Yes.

Shannon (24:11.539)
That makes perfect sense. Yeah. You have to look at that. You sit with it, you look at it, you learn from it, and then you move forward. And that may be in little baby steps, but you move forward, you don't punish yourself with it. And if you don't move forward with those little baby steps, and that's what you're doing, you're holding onto it and you're punishing yourself with it. And we definitely don't want to do that.

Ann (24:29.675)
No,

Kristan Swan (24:30.018)
Yeah.

Ann (24:39.325)
No, you need to give yourself some grace, really.

Shannon (24:42.344)
Yeah.

Kristan Swan (24:42.798)
Yeah. And I think that sometimes we hold on to these stories because we are afraid of what might, by the letting go of the story as that definition of who we are, we then step into this space of kind of the unknown, right?

Ann (25:12.225)
Yes.

Kristan Swan (25:12.366)
And, and as odd as that can seem, right, that we, I can think of those times where I, I kind of made choices that kept me in a familiar yet uncomfortable place, right? Because if I, if I moved forward, boy, I, I, wow, I don't, I don't know what's ahead of me. And, and that could be.

That could be kind of scary, but I mean, gosh, it's, I think I now know that's actually so exciting, right? That you do have this possibility ahead of you that you kind of don't know exactly how it's going to play out. But boy, if you show up and if you're present, then you do have some say in...

in making those choices, as we've mentioned, that are much more about who you are and who you want to be.

Ann (26:19.341)
that. Yep.

Kristan Swan (26:22.124)
Yeah, but it's, think that the, the unknown can be, it just is, it can be really scary. And, and I know that that's kind of stating the obvious, but I think that it's worth.

sitting with that and thinking about particularly something that you're kind of saying that you want for yourself or that you see for your life and that is different than where you are right now. I think that there is and I know that in my own life there have been these times where I have

said I wanted this, you know, I wanted this life to happen. I mean, like, for instance, I knew that I could be a good partner in a marriage, right? And I wanted that and I was, I kind of wasn't, I,

I still, wasn't open to the possibility, even though I could kind of see it, still in my actions where I was kind of stuck in old patterns. So it wasn't until I could, again, kind of think about, just think creatively, right? Think more expansively around how things could be that I was able to then kind of baby step.

myself towards a better relationship for me.

Ann (28:12.757)
Maybe believing in yourself more, you I really can do things. I'll be okay, you know?

Shannon (28:13.097)
Yeah.

Kristan Swan (28:15.798)
Yeah.

Kristan Swan (28:21.792)
Right. Right. And not to, I think sometimes we get really ahead of ourselves. I mean, I'm a super planner and yeah, right? And part of my, one of my kind of adaptive behaviors, because I grew up in a chaotic kind of household was to plan things and to schedule things and to be controlling.

Shannon (28:22.951)
Yeah.

Shannon (28:31.465)
Me too.

Ann (28:32.653)
You

Kristan Swan (28:51.606)
right, as much as I could be. I used to, you know, I think I fooled myself for a while that I could control more than I really could, right. And so, I that so sometimes when I have that thing that I'm saying that I want for my life, I can get, I can start kind of mapping that out and looking down the road.

Shannon (29:00.221)
Mm-hmm.

Kristan Swan (29:19.788)
And then I can get really overwhelmed, right? Of that, gosh, well, this might end up being a problem or this might end up like, I'm going to have to figure this part out. And, and what I will just say, and I say this to myself, it's like, slow down. and in fact, that, you know, when you come to it, you will have so much more information, right? You're not going to, you're not leapfrogging from where you are now to that.

So, it's going to come gradually, right? And frankly, mean, there have been times in my business where I've thought, I really want that thing. And then I'll kind of think about all the challenges. it's like, those are going to be good problems to have, right? And I will figure it out when I get there, but not to get too far ahead of yourself. Just like, what am I going to do today? Right?

Shannon (30:04.49)
you

Ann (30:05.141)
Yeah.

Shannon (30:13.3)
Yep, yep, exactly. Do you think wisdom is something that you earn through suffering or through reflection?

Kristan Swan (30:26.318)
I, well, for myself, I probably have learned it both ways. I don't know that suffering is necessary. However, I do, I mean, we do seem to be so wired to, you know, kind of experience suffering, right? I mean, it does seem to be.

Shannon (30:52.702)
Yeah.

Kristan Swan (30:59.118)
pervasive in the human condition. I will say that I think going back again to these stories, I think that collectively in our Western culture, and particularly in the United States, we have this inherited story of, you know,

hard work and self-reliance and, you know, all, I mean, there's a whole list, right? And the bootstraps and all that kind of stuff. there's a real, there's, somehow there's a, kind of an aversion. We've been trained to have this aversion for things that come with some ease.

Shannon (31:36.478)
Yeah.

Ann (31:38.861)
Thank

Kristan Swan (31:58.358)
Right? That somehow, I mean, I think that we might have a tendency to kind of chalk that up to luck, right? We don't, we don't give ourselves any credit for actually having laid the groundwork for these lucky events. and some things are just luck, right? I mean, you'd buy a raffle ticket, I guess, but in it's luck, but it's, but I mean, I, I think about like one thing I think about is in being in high school and there was,

Shannon (31:59.583)
Yeah.

Shannon (32:18.346)
You

Kristan Swan (32:26.606)
Uh, my favorite, favorite teacher was a French teacher and she used to do these trips to France and I hadn't been to, I mean, I had, guess I had been to Mexico and Canada, but I hadn't been outside of the United States, um, ever at this point. And boy, did I want to go in France, especially because I was studying French and I love this French teacher and, um, and

So I wanted to go on this trip and it was the cost of it was way beyond what my mom especially could afford. I threw kind of asking my grandparents if they would contribute a little bit and I had a job at that time. So working and saving and I...

I went on the trip and I remember kind of after the fact thinking, gosh, I am so lucky that I made it. I kind of forgot about like all those months of babysitting that I did and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

Ann (33:46.369)
all that work.

Kristan Swan (33:53.154)
you know, little birthday money here and there. you know, it, yes, I was lucky that I paid attention to that. I really, really wanted to go to France. I'll say that was lucky, but my getting there was a whole bunch of, a whole bunch of different actions that I took. Right. And so there's, I mean,

Shannon (34:14.911)
Mm-hmm.

Kristan Swan (34:19.924)
Going back to this idea of suffering, think that

there is

That is a choice, but I know we don't necessarily, there's going to be a lot of people that might take exception to that and say, gosh, I don't have a choice. You know, I'm in a, I'm in a really, I'm in a bad relationship. I'm, you know, I'm struggling to pay my bills. am. And yes, I do think that we have some big systemic issues within our culture. So I'm, definitely speaking.

Shannon (34:38.825)
Yeah.

Kristan Swan (34:59.256)
from a position of privilege at this moment, as I'm saying, that we have choices. But there are those, and again, I like to get back to just like the smallest moments of staying present to the choices that we have.

Kristan Swan (35:22.766)
And we can choose things that honor who we are and by extension will create more ease in our lives.

Ann (35:36.289)
I agree. So Kristan, you emphasize curiosity over judgment. Why is curiosity such a powerful tool for healing?

Shannon (35:36.798)
Yeah.

Kristan Swan (35:47.822)
gosh. Well, as we've been talking about that, that, that judgment, that assignment, which by the way is being assigned by, by us or by other people. Right? I mean, it's being, it's not, it's, it really isn't coming from on high. It's, it's coming from right here. So,

Shannon (36:06.197)
Mm-hmm.

Shannon (36:14.229)
Yep.

Kristan Swan (36:15.254)
And we give, a lot of times we give this judgment so much power, right? So I think that the way that I can best highlight why I think curiosity is so important and can move us beyond that kind of place of stagnation, that judgment can...

Shannon (36:22.527)
Yes.

Kristan Swan (36:43.95)
can kind of keep us in, Is that you, you begin to, it just, because it's asking a question, right? A judgment is, feels so, it's such a statement and then there's a finality to it, right? And there's this weight to it, right? Just love the idea of asking a question. Like, well, I mean, I was,

Shannon (37:03.307)
All right.

Kristan Swan (37:14.446)
Speaking of this conversation of luckiness, right? And I was sitting with my dad a little while ago and he was reflecting on his life and he was saying, you know, I do feel like I was so lucky. And he said, you know, there are moments where I ask myself, you know, why me? And I think, you know, in the spirit of asking questions, I think you

also get to ask, well, why not me? and that's not a, that's, that's not to elevate yourself somehow. That's in, in immoral or improper. It's just, it's a genuine question, right? Why not? mean, if we're going to, if we're willing to ask why, then be willing to ask why not.

Shannon (37:46.923)
Mm-hmm.

Ann (37:47.435)
Right.

Shannon (38:00.299)
Yeah.

Ann (38:00.97)
Yeah, exactly.

Shannon (38:06.345)
Yeah. And that gives us by asking that question, that gives us a moment to think, stop and think on that question. Really, why not? And call to mind some positives about yourself, your own self as to answer that question. Why not?

Ann (38:17.931)
Mm-hmm.

Ann (38:26.593)
Right.

Kristan Swan (38:26.958)
Yeah. It's, mean, I think of it, it's, I mean, if we're flipping coins, it's, the, the tails or the heads are just as likely to come up, right? So if we are, if, we're saying that one thing is this way, I think we deserve to say, well, okay, so is

Ann (38:43.542)
Right.

Kristan Swan (38:56.014)
Could the opposite be true too? or, or yeah, just to, to kind of think about, right? The, the, I'm always kind of fascinated with the duality in life, right? And, and I think that that is, is a, an operating system by which our own curiosity is, can be guided too.

Shannon (39:07.837)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Shannon (39:22.111)
Yeah. So what are some simple ways that people can engage a creative mindset, even if they don't see themselves as creative?

Kristan Swan (39:32.022)
Right, right. Well, one of the things that I will just, just so that we have kind of a framework around this, this word creative that we're using, right? Because the minute I feel like in my workshops and just everyday conversation, the minute I say creative, I cannot tell you how many times people are like, I cannot draw to save my life. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, that's not what I were.

Shannon (39:41.227)
Yeah.

Shannon (39:54.869)
Yeah.

Kristan Swan (39:59.994)
That's not what we're thinking. That's not what we're doing here. And I will say a lot of times too, one of the things in my own journal, even Spaghetti on the Wall, I have a section that says out of the box inspiration, right? And so a lot of times too, when we're talking about creativity, where it's like, it's that out of the box thinking. And yes, it is. And...

Shannon (40:01.973)
Right.

Kristan Swan (40:29.016)
I mean, really what I'm talking about at the end of the day is the in the box thinking, right? That you have real life constraints or, or, you know, there, there is that box, whatever it is, whether it's time, money, talent, whatever. And if you're saying, I mean, creativity or a creative mindset is really about problem solving. Right?

That's creativity. And so it's figuring out that solution within the box. And there's actually multiple solutions within the box, right? I love to give the example of if the three of us are actually in a room together and we're deciding to go...

get lunch, well, okay, so we've got our box, so to speak, is that we need to eat, let's say just because of our schedule, we decided we need to eat at a certain time of day and we only have this much time, right? And we only want to spend this much money on lunch. And we are in a place where there's only this many places to get some lunch from. And still within

All of those, all of those constraints, all three of us could come up with three different options and then some for what we were going to do for lunch.

Shannon (42:07.724)
Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Ann (42:08.918)
Right.

love it. So, journaling plays a big role in your work. How does writing help people transform their stories?

Kristan Swan (42:16.908)
Mm-hmm.

Kristan Swan (42:21.856)
Well, what I have noticed and what I just love actually is, so my brain, there's a lot, you know, at any given moment, there's a lot going on in there like all of us. And I believe in journaling with pen and paper, right? Or pencil and paper.

whatever your writing instrument is, but I believe in the power of the physical activity. So that in and of itself is, I can only write so quickly, right? I don't know how to do shorthand. So I have to slow down, right? So I'm already just in the practice of it itself. I am being asked,

slow down and think more slowly. I've got to put a little bit of a governor on my racing thoughts. Sometimes the way that I will get started journaling, if I'm really just got a lot going on, is I'll just do a brain dump. That's literally just clearing everything that's bouncing around on a piece of paper.

I also have a new journal that's kind of a similar thing by doing a line drawing, a continuous line drawing, but sometimes you just have to do the big, you know, somehow a brain dub. And the other thing I like about journaling, once you get to that point where you are kind of writing in sentences or partial sentences, whatever, is that you are, you can only put down one thing at a time.

Right. And so there is, and it doesn't, it takes a while to, get to this place because we're all being told that we are meant to be paying attention to so many different things at once. Right. That, you know, the multitasking and the, myth of multitasking, I call it, drives me crazy. We can't really multitask people. it's just our brains doing this thing. And, and so.

Shannon (44:29.932)
Bye.

Kristan Swan (44:43.618)
I think there just is something so wonderful that where the clarity comes over time, because you have been slowing down, you are kind of putting that jumble of thoughts and feelings and impressions into a linear fashion, whether it's a sentence or a bullet point or a list or whatever.

But there is slowly kind of a slowing down and a documentation that requires you to just take that moment that our everyday life often is not supporting or encouraging.

Ann (45:38.305)
There you go

Shannon (45:40.118)
Yeah, I'm a huge believer in journaling. I've been journaling for a long time. And I have a little journal here that my best friend Ann bought me. We went to Scotland. I'm a Scotland fan, so it's my... And yeah, like you say, sometimes it's just brain dumps of just all this craziness that's happening in my brain.

Kristan Swan (45:48.767)
No.

Kristan Swan (45:54.563)
it's beautiful. it's gorgeous.

Ann (45:57.451)
the

Ann (46:07.149)
stuff.

Kristan Swan (46:10.231)
Yep.

Shannon (46:10.453)
and I gotta get rid of it. And I just dump it out onto the page. And you would be surprised at how much better you feel after that gets dumped out of your brain onto a page. I feel lighter. And yeah, like you say, my brain slows down and yeah. So if you've never tried journaling, start.

Kristan Swan (46:12.589)
Yeah.

Kristan Swan (46:25.186)
Yes.

Yes!

Kristan Swan (46:33.56)
they have.

Shannon (46:38.753)
because it's really good.

Kristan Swan (46:41.696)
It is really good. And I will put in a plug for Spaghetti on the Wall, my original journal that I created because it is sometimes I teach journaling classes and different journaling modalities. And one of the biggest questions that I can get is, I don't know where to start. Well, okay, these are statements. I'll get the, I don't know where to start. I don't know if I'm doing it right.

it's going to take too long. And what's another one? I know it's, it's like, it's, there's kind of also that I know it's good for me. And is it really going to, you know, is it really going to move the needle? So what I love about spaghetti on the wall and I really created, I love creating just simple, I love trying to

think about the simplest way to get the biggest impact of any self-reflective or self-discovery process. Because I think also there's this idea that somehow self-discovery is so laborious and painful and there's a lot of suffering. I just don't think it has to be that way. Spaghetti on the Wall is designed for 12 minutes.

I encourage people if they set a timer for 15, sometimes 15 feels too long, just, you know, the, doesn't have to be too long and it's, actually guided. So it asks you, it gives you a section at the top that is called your top thought. And that's kind of a little mini section where you can do a mini brain dump, just so you can kind of clear the decks. And then it asks you to journal in a non-judgmental.

kind of observant way about your day or an event. And then it asks you to, there's the part that's called the experience evaluator. And that's where you kind of make note of a real yes in your day. And a yes can be something that just brought a smile to your face. It doesn't have to be, it's kind of a, you know, winning the lottery kind of moment. can be the tiniest thing. It could be where you just felt

Kristan Swan (49:08.802)
completely at ease with yourself. could be, you know, it can be where you had a pleasant surprise. And then there's the not so much section. And that's the place where you get to kind of notice where there were points of friction or those kind of like, oof, I don't know, this just didn't land right. Or sometimes I find myself

You know, I took my mom to go do something yesterday and I journaled about it this morning. I'm like, gosh, I don't know. I kind of felt like she wanted to tell a story and I didn't really, I was kind of rushing her and I'm not really happy how I showed up in that moment. I think I could have been more generous with my time, right? So just kind of noticing those little bits. And again, it's not about saying, God, you're just a horrible daughter and

You are just, you you're gotta, you know, give yourself a hard time about it. It's just saying, gosh, okay. Yeah, I was a little bit rushed. am, you know, is there an opportunity for me next time to just not schedule my day so tightly? You know, or could I, you know, just, could I more gently just say, I really want to hear this story and,

you know, can we do that later this week or something? So just giving you information about kind of those moments that you're like, that kind of wasn't exactly, that's either not the person I know myself to be, or that's not how I want to show up for my life.

Ann (50:56.405)
Right, it happens though. But we learned from it. You do.

Kristan Swan (50:58.879)
gosh. All of them. We do. We do.

Shannon (51:00.087)
Yeah.

Shannon (51:04.485)
Exactly. And also I feel like with journaling, you really can't do it wrong. There's really no wrong in journaling. know, people think that they can do it wrong, but there's no wrong in journaling. yeah.

Ann (51:10.146)
now.

Kristan Swan (51:11.317)
I know. I know.

Ann (51:13.216)
No.

Ann (51:17.901)
No, it's yours. It's your story.

Kristan Swan (51:21.184)
It is yours. It's just for you. And it isn't for anyone else. that's, mean, it's kind of in a world that doesn't feel that private anymore. This is just for you. And it's your place that you can try out different things.

Shannon (51:38.504)
Bye.

Kristan Swan (51:51.02)
Let your hair down, right?

Ann (51:53.453)
Just enjoy.

Shannon (51:54.339)
Yeah, exactly. What's one journaling prompt that helps move people from self judgment to self understanding?

Kristan Swan (51:55.35)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kristan Swan (52:05.55)
Oh gosh, I... Well, I think one prompt that I just, I love because it's, well, the prompt is to reflect on a friendship that changed your life.

Shannon (52:25.102)
i love that prompt.

Kristan Swan (52:26.698)
I know, right? And I think what that prompt does is, I mean, friendship is this beautiful gift that we have, you know, as humans. I think we have, you know, this capacity to be friends with other humans. And really what you are noticing about

Ann (52:26.731)
Me too.

Shannon (52:28.515)
you

Shannon (52:41.454)
Yes.

Kristan Swan (52:56.214)
that friend and is a lot of times it's really a mirror of also characteristics that you have, right? And so I used to, I did a couple of workshops with a friend of mine who I participated in her workshops and she had this great exercise that was the

kind of heroes exercise and it was basically asking you to name kind of your favorite literary character or you're a famous or a, you know, a famous actor or a famous musician or, and then you were asked to kind of pull the characteristic out that you really

you know, it asked you to reflect on your favorite historical figure, right? And so you would name that characteristic that is the reason why you chose that person. And, you know, after you did the whole exercise, really the point of it was that all of those things that you're noticing in other people are those things that are within you, right? And I kind of...

took that exercise and I actually adopted it to what I call local heroes, which is an instance where you recognized kindness in someone else. You recognized patience in someone else. You recognized all these different characteristics and I asked, you know, who the person was for just to jot down who the person was and kind of what the instance was and

Again, I think that those moments that you're noticing are so informative about who you are and what matters to you. going back to this idea of journaling for greater clarity and greater self-awareness, mean, is, you know, kind of, those are great companion pieces, right?

Kristan Swan (55:16.622)
paying attention both to yourself but also to this outer world and the interactions that you're having.

Ann (55:24.407)
like that.

Shannon (55:25.132)
love that.

Ann (55:31.863)
So once someone starts seeing their story differently, how does that change the choices that they make?

Kristan Swan (55:39.438)
Well, hopefully it is highlighting that there is, of moving from, as we were talking about, moving from judgment to curiosity and perhaps being willing to release some of that judgment in the spirit of

Just awareness, right? And the spirit of that was the information in that moment. And so you now have new information that you can then apply to the next line of your story, to the next chapter.

Shannon (56:39.159)
Yeah. How can we practice alignment without waiting to feel healed enough?

Kristan Swan (56:48.328)
gosh. Yeah. That apps. I love that question. Thank you so much. Yeah. Alignment is, and, and I think that's, that's so important to thank you for that because alignment I, I'm, when I'm talking about, when I'm talking about acting, you know, in alignment with myself, it's not that there's it's, it is not about a perfection or

Shannon (57:05.421)
Hahaha

Kristan Swan (57:18.222)
kind of a doneness, so to speak, right? It just is simply suggesting that there is this path and there are these guiding principles or these guiding truths that I know about myself, right? And in each day, each moment, there is a choice that's

that's coming forth that I get to be kind of living into those principles or those beliefs that I have or also that inner wisdom that I have. it's, would, for me, and I'm kind of a visual thinker, so I'm thinking about, again, alignment isn't this, it's not a,

It's not this perfect destination, right? It really is part of that journey. And it's about just making sure that you're bringing your whole self along the way, right? Not your baggage necessarily, right? Just you.

Ann (58:35.181)
I love that. Yeah, right. Just you. All the positivity in there.

Shannon (58:38.093)
Yeah.

Kristan Swan (58:43.746)
That may be your favorite outfit, right?

Ann (58:45.225)
Right, exactly. So Kristan, what does living forward instead of looking back actually look like?

Kristan Swan (58:55.648)
Well, I've had people say to me, they're like, gosh, it seems like you don't, you're not looking back that much. And, and they've said it not necessarily in a way that is meant to be a criticism. But I will say that it's, for me, the living forward is really

an honoring of being present, right? So, and it's not about even living into the future, right? It's, mean, quite literally it is, we've, mean, we, most for those of us who are sighted, most of our information is coming through our eyes, right? And so our eyes are on the front of our faces and...

So that is where we are gonna be present, right? And so living forward is being curious and being open and being aware of that which is kind of right in front of us.

Ann (01:00:09.367)
There you go.

Shannon (01:00:11.182)
Yeah, that's wonderful. Great way to look at things. Right, exactly.

Ann (01:00:13.311)
Yes. It really is. I love that.

Kristan Swan (01:00:18.051)
Literally and figuratively, right?

Ann (01:00:20.267)
Yeah.

But it works. It just works.

Shannon (01:00:25.15)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. So if someone listening is feeling stuck in an old story filled with shame or regret, what would you want them to hear right now?

Kristan Swan (01:00:26.616)
Yeah.

Kristan Swan (01:00:39.182)
I would first of all, I would just want to say that you are not alone. I would say that I think every person and certainly myself, I can relate to that. And I have been there and I would also say that

really the person that you are meant to be is waiting and and it's and so to to be willing to you know whether it's through journaling or meditation or whatever modality but being willing to sit with your shame and being willing to say that that was

You know, that did happen. Not that we're not saying it didn't happen. And I'm here now. And so I can be different now. Right. And I don't, and I'm actually not kind of, I'm not serving myself or anyone else by holding on to this.

in fact, that it's, I'm doing a disservice and not only to yourself and that I guess I would just also really want to highlight that there's, it's, it's not a selfishness, right? That by, by willing, by being willing to say, you know, putting that shame in, in its kind of rightful place.

rather than keeping it as, you know, a backpack that's just too heavy to carry every day. That it's not being selfish to be, and it's actually, it takes some bravery to say, yeah, that happened. I'm not proud of it. And then to say, I want to do something.

Shannon (01:02:37.848)
Right.

Kristan Swan (01:03:01.922)
different today.

Ann (01:03:06.445)
Kristan, where can listeners find out more about you and your work?

Kristan Swan (01:03:13.048)
The simplest way is my website and that's kristanswan.com and that has all of my journals and also I write weekly and there's more information there. And certainly if you are a social media consumer, you can find me on Instagram and

Ann (01:03:13.773)
you

Ann (01:03:40.301)
you

Kristan Swan (01:03:41.496)
TikTok and things like that too. And it's Kristan Swan.

Shannon (01:03:46.703)
Well, I don't have TikTok, but I do follow her on Instagram. And let me tell you guys, you should follow her because her posts are very motivational and just pure, and I really love them. So.

Kristan Swan (01:03:49.934)
I'm sorry.

Ann (01:03:50.645)
Yeah.

Kristan Swan (01:04:00.5)
thank you so much. Yes. Yeah.

Ann (01:04:00.632)
And we all need that.

Shannon (01:04:02.574)
Exactly. Kristan, thank you for reminding us that our stories don't end where the pain happened. They evolve when we meet them with honesty, curiosity, and compassion. And is there anything else that you'd like to share with our listeners before we close out today?

Kristan Swan (01:04:16.846)
Yeah.

Kristan Swan (01:04:23.078)
I guess I would just, don't, I don't know if we hear this enough, but that we are our, and I alluded to it a little bit, but we're, we are whole as we are in this moment, right. And to, and to remain curious and open it's if we think about traveling, right. And one of the reasons why I think traveling brings us so much joy.

is because when we travel, we're saying that we're willing to be curious, right? Because we're going to a new place or we're going to a place we've been before and we're curious to experience it again. And if we could bring that same kind of openness and curiosity to our own experience and our own lives, it...

we can have so much more joy and ease in each day.

Shannon (01:05:26.318)
couldn't agree more.

Ann (01:05:27.347)
Exactly. Yes. Wow.

Kristan Swan (01:05:30.434)
Thank you.

Shannon (01:05:31.874)
And for our listeners, you don't need to erase your past to move forward. Sometimes all it takes is a new way of listening to your own story. And we'll link Kristan's website in the show notes. And it'll also be on our website, TraveltimeStories.com. And listeners can sign up on your website for your email list, correct Kristan? And what do they get when they sign up for your email list?

Kristan Swan (01:05:57.934)
Well, we have a fun newsletter that comes out each month. And also, in the not too distant future, there are going to be a couple of free printable handouts that you will get when you sign up. And if you sign up before those are ready, because I'm redoing them right now,

Don't worry, we'll make sure that you get one.

Shannon (01:06:29.583)
Awesome, that's wonderful. So everyone take a moment to share this story with someone you think needs to hear it or leave a review. It truly helps these stories reach the people who need them most. Until next time, keep traveling your story and keep making memories for life.

Ann (01:06:30.871)
Yes.