Sapna Srinivasan (A New Mantra): When You Stop Living the Life Everyone Expected

SPEAKER_04 0:09

Let's do the guy. All daughters invite from all of the stories. Unravel the days at our podcast of the Welcome to the Author Spotlight series.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

This is where we step behind the pages to meet the people who create the stories we love. We'll talk about their latest book, their writing journeys, and the story behind the story. And probably a few things neither of us plan to talk about, because around here, the best conversations have a way of taking us somewhere unexpected.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Today I'm putting Sapna Srinivasan in the spotlight. Satna, welcome to Travel Time Stories. We're so glad to have you here today.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Thank you. Likewise, I'm so excited to be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Before we dive into your book, we'd love for you to introduce yourself to our audience and tell us a little bit about who you are.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Yes, of course. Hi everyone, I'm Sapna Srinivasan. I'm a contemporary romance author. My debut novel, A New Mantra, released quite a few years ago, 2022 April, that I'm excited to talk about it today. I have authored four books as part of a series, The South Family, and I'm originally from India. I immigrated to the United States in 2005 when I got married. And I had an arranged marriage, and that's part of what kind of created the canvas for my book. And I've been here in the US now longer than I have been in India. I've been close to now 22 years. And I I feel very much American in my heart, but my roots are Indian, so I love the mishmash there. And you'll see bits and pieces of it come through, I'm sure, today.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

I love that. That's so wonderful. It is. And we're so excited to get to know you and talk about your debut novel, The New Mantra. And your hook for the book is only eight words, but it tells us so much. She's always done what was expected of her, until. And that word until is doing a lot of work there. So can you tell us who Mira Sud is before the until happens?

SPEAKER_00 2:33

I love that. Yes. And that's part of, I think that was the intention. So I'm glad that it delivered on its promise. So Mira Sood is your traditional Indian housewife who marries and moves to the United States and has always lived a very structured life based on what was expected of her. And the reason I wanted to have that be my lead personality is because I think that I myself can relate to that sometimes, and I think a lot of us can, where we live our life based on what people expect of us, just so we don't ruffle feathers, just to avoid conflict, because we don't want to hurt the other person's feelings for whatever reason. So that's who Mirosud is. And uh she's dedicated her life like a traditional Indian housewife does to her husband, putting herself, her dreams, her needs on the back burner, putting him first. Um, and I won't touch the until just yet, but this is who she is. But she's about to be tested on that and and tested on whether she's right in in that approach is really what the book uh wants to do.

SPEAKER_03 3:47

Yeah, I love that. I think so many of us can relate to that. I think so many of us have been in that position and maybe are currently still in that position because you're afraid to challenge that, I guess uh traditions is the best way to put it, that you that have been ingrained in you. Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Very much so. Yeah, I think I feel like uh even for us, and you we don't have to be married to relate, you don't have to be Indian to relate, you don't have to be a woman to relate, you just have to be human to be able to relate to the fact that sometimes change can be scary. Uh change means you have to then first accept that something's not working. That in itself scares me. If I just wanting to change my coffee brand sometimes scares me. I'm like, what if it gives me a stomachache? What if the new brand? You know, so I've had this conversation with my husband, and this is uh an example based on a true story is how about we try this brand of coffee? And I'm like, uh, sure. And then two weeks later, you know, we're like, how come we're still drinking the same coffee? And I'm like, because I don't want to change it. I don't know. So that's how that's just the instinct, right? And so I can imagine just the bigger things that require that question of challenging it, poking holes in it. Is this really working? Can be scary. So yeah, I yeah. There's reasoning behind why we don't want it changed. I think it's fair, the it's it's fair to not want it changed. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

So Mira is a 30-year-old housewife, arranged marriage, and living what appears to be a really stable life until she discovers her husband's affair. And three years in, that's it. How much of Mira's identity at that point is tied to being the person everyone expected her to be?

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Yes, that's a really good question. At that point, she really is living out everything that people expect of her. And that's, I think, what rocks her boat the most is because she at that point is thinking this is what you wanted of me. So why isn't this working? It rocks her world because it's almost like you follow someone into the woods on a on a based on trust, trusting them to lead you in the right direction without following your instinct. You're over, you're almost you're you're turning off your instinct, your default, and kind of manually overriding that and going with the other person's instinct almost. Um, and so at that point, when Mira hits that point where she discovers the affair, that piece really rocks her because that's really not her. And that's not something she can make peace with. And that really is the trigger that tests her strength, the strength of her instinct. That tests her instinct and how strong it is against that force that so questions and threatens who she really is at that point. And so, yeah, I would say until then, she's just been following someone else's map, and she needs to now, and she's lost at this point. The map's taking her nowhere, it's taking her to a wall, and she's facing a wall right now. Uh actually, in her case, it's a canyon that has a bottomless, that's like a bottomless canyon. So a wall's probably better, but I didn't make it a wall for her. I just made it a nosedive canyon because I really needed her to like wake up at that point.

SPEAKER_06 7:27

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:29

That betrayal caused her to question everything at that point. I mean, she really did hit a nosedive.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Mm-hmm. Yes. Because everything that I think she at that point realizes that she's been living a fake life, not her life at all, almost like an illusion that she's believed just vaporizes and she's left essentially with nothing. Because when she's followed the lead of tradition over instinct, she's put herself and her needs on the back burner. So she's never pursued her dreams. So she's left essentially at that point. She's left without a job, she's left without a home. She has to find a new place to live. There's no source of income. And she can't face her family because she hasn't yet reached that point in her life where she knows whether they're right or wrong. She's assuming they must be right. I've screwed up somehow. I've made I messed up. I messed up. I let them down. And that's for her to find out is were they right? Was she wrong? Did she mess up?

SPEAKER_03 8:35

Yeah. So your description tells us she faces severe backlash from her Orthodox family. And like you said, now she's dealing with this heartbreak, this financial insecurity and humiliation while also carrying that weight of other people's expectations. I mean, that's a lot. So what interested you about exploring the moment when honoring your family and your culture begins to conflict with honoring yourself?

SPEAKER_00 9:06

I love that. It's an unexplored area, I feel like, for a lot of us, especially in my community. But I think safe to say, in a lot of communities across the United States, where family tradition comes in different shapes and forms. And in my community, it comes in the shape of, you know, you put your family first. It's a very collective culture. It's not an individualistic culture a lot of the times. And so for her, she has to stop and think, you know, I don't know about that. You know, and I wanted to explore this because it's an untold story. There are truly so many mirrors out there. Um, and I was writing this, as I was writing, I can tell you there were points where I felt like, you know, that sense where you feel so strongly like this needs to be heard and this needs to be said, and people need to talk about it more. And it hasn't been uh talked about as much because it's awkward. No one wants to go about dissing family traditions, no one wants to go about talking about how they're not happy with their family or not happy with the expectations and the burden of the expectations on them. And I know personally friends of mine, oh, and I I've encountered especially one specific friend uh who shall remain unnamed, but who went through almost exactly the same situation as Mira, who went through that and had the burden of having to now juggle the these two uh opposing situations where the family still expects her to reconcile and not change her marriage situation, but it's not gonna work, you know. Um, it has to be more explored. I still think that it's not, even in today's day. So I think the the need to shine a light on the hidden mirrors out there. There are so many. And they're quiet and they're living out their lives quietly. And because they don't have that voice for whatever reason, I want their story to be heard, even if it's in fiction form, it's a story that needs to be told.

SPEAKER_03 11:19

Yeah, I agree with that a hundred percent. I know a bunch of people who have been in that same situation who have been mirrors, like you said, it's not talked about and it needs to be talked about, and the shame around it needs to be thrown away. Yes. Exactly. Do you do you think that Mira can reject certain expectations without rejecting the people or the culture that she loves?

SPEAKER_00 11:47

You know, I don't think that people would look at it that way. For them, rejecting their expectations and the traditions sort of amounts to rejecting them because they're it's by association, and the rejection happens by association. So when she rejects one, she automatically gives them the impression that she's rejecting the other. And so that's part of the challenge for her, really, is how can she communicate? And that's for her to figure out how can she communicate that this is what she wants to do, and that means rejecting this traditional idea, but it doesn't mean rejecting you guys. It just I'm not, I want to still be part of, I want you guys to be part of my life, and I love you guys, but I don't love this idea that you're forcing me to to act out or live out. Yeah. And I think that, you know, just going back to the previous uh point of, you know, oh, there are a lot of people we know, and I'm sure there are a lot of people we know, and it has nothing to do with, you know, the family situation. Even sometimes it can even be that it's for our kids that we just can push through. You just keep pushing and pushing and pushing until you cannot until you're gone. You're not there anymore. You've disappeared somehow. Yeah. And I feel like especially so for women, because the expectations seem to be at a much higher bar for us girls. I don't know why. Right? Yeah, it is. It just is. And we've just had to live up to that, and we're really good at it. Thank you very much. But we'd like to have the same standard, please. We're not saying lower our bar, we're just saying, how about we up the other guys' bars is all we're saying. Uh and so, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

That would be nice to see, you know, because it it is true. Women, we're it, we do it all.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Yeah. And unfortunately, we're good at it, and that's the problem. If we stank at it, maybe they wouldn't keep pushing us, you know. Exactly. Unfortunately, we're overachievers as a as a gender group. We're just, we're not, we're just like, give us a challenge and we'll make it work. Unfortunately, we're really good at that. We're great at following through. We're great. And we would be amazing ultramarathoners, all of us. We could we would hit that finish line, even if it's our corpse that's rolling past that finish line. We make it, you know. Um, I it's so funny. There was this, there was this show that I watched, you guys. I don't know. I cannot remember what it was, but it was it was this challenge uh of physical endurance, okay? Of course, for us it's both. We went in like mental endurance and physical work, both there. But uh, this was about physical endurance, and and the guy had to put his hand into a bowl of ice water, and the girl had to put her hand into the bowl of ice water to see who can stay there the longest. The guy slipped out like five seconds into the challenge. He's like, Oh, my hand is falling off. And the girl was like, Okay, I can stay here for a very long time. Like she was fine, you know. So I'm not gonna generalize and say it's true for everybody, but I think it's just um I have just it's it would be fair to say that as women we've uh had a steeper mountain to climb. And and so that's what I'm I was trying to make sure that my character can portray that and tell that side of the story.

SPEAKER_03 15:11

Yeah, exactly. And I think a good point when you were describing about rejecting what is required and rejecting the family being tied together so well is because I think in certain cultures, more so than others, and I I've seen it in Friends of Indian descent that their culture, like even if your family says, okay, I can accept this and I accept you and and you're the choice that you made, the outside pressure of the culture around, because they don't accept it, it really puts pressure on the parents to then, you know, have to back away and say, Oh, I'm sorry, no, I can't, I can't accept it.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

That's exactly right. Because it's a collective culture, it's a collectivist culture. Um, what that entails is your family doesn't just include mom, dad, and your siblings. No, your family includes grandma, grandpa, both sides. And then you've got the aunts, and then you've got the uncles, and then you've got the who knows who they are, but they show up at every wedding. Uh, I don't even know their names. And like, right, they wedding crash, like they were at my wedding, and I to that to this day I don't know who they are, but they came and they ate and they even said hi to me as they left and thank you for having me. And I'm like, okay, thanks. And I have no idea who they are. Um so we have like extended relatives, you know, and it's it's really true. It's not an exaggeration at all when I say that. Uh, and you're absolutely right, Shannon. Is it that's the pressure that kind of comes with, and so you just and at that point you're just weighing, weighing the sides and you're thinking, is it really worth waging this war on the entire community? Um, it's because that's what it really turns out into, is when you reject that one idea, it dominoes into rejecting the whole community, and you essentially are left ostracized. And at that point, you have to think, is my mental health worth staying in the the community, or is being ostracized worth is my mental health you know more important?

SPEAKER_03 17:28

Yeah.

unknown 17:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

Yeah. And I think you see that in not just the Indian culture, but there's several cultures that are like that. It's it's about not just the immediate family, but the whole community as well. Like in the Amish country, you know, you have the shunning. So if someone goes against the beliefs, they get shunned from the whole community. And you got to think about that, you know, mentally, how traumatizing that can be if that's the only thing you've ever known your whole life. And then all of a sudden, because you challenged one of the things or rejected something, then now you're the people that you are your family will no longer speak to you, will no longer allow you to live within their community.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

And you know, no longer belong anywhere at that point.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Exactly. Yeah. Yep. Yep. And it's easier said than done to execute that kind of thing because the other piece of, you know, our instinct as humans is we're not islands, we're social beings. And we need that family. We need that sense of community, that sense of belonging. And so now to take that away, you have to essentially reinvent yourself. Start from scratch and come up with this new almost design for how you're going to live your life the rest of your life out. And so that's, I think that so, which is why I think sometimes it takes a breaking point to make that kind of shift. It's too big of a shift to make just because someone brought a dish to the potluck that had too much salt in it, you know. So it's gotta be something bigger than that. It's gotta be, you know, it's gotta be big enough that you can you're willing to do that. And that's what it was for Mira. It was it was too big to ignore at that point.

SPEAKER_03 19:21

Yeah, she had to act at that point because, like you say, it wasn't just something willy-nilly like, oh, somebody brought a dish they shouldn't have brought, or you know, went somewhere that they shouldn't have gone, you know, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

I told you I'm the one bringing dessert and you did what, you know, so no. Yeah, it's gotta be, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Yeah. For her, everything literally fell apart.

SPEAKER_03 19:45

Yeah, her whole world. Then I think it's funny because then you have Mira who has no athletic experience, and now she signs up for a half marathon. I mean, I am cruel, I know.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Like, oh my gosh, are you kidding me right now? Oh yeah, I'm I'm evil. I'm I'm I can be evil. I have to have an outlet somehow, right?

SPEAKER_03 20:10

So, what did running teach you, because I know you're a runner, about yourself, and then that you also wanted to incorporate that into Mira and her discovery.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Yes. And there's something I should convey is, and it's important because it was very difficult for me to write certain aspects of Mira's story because I come from a family that is extremely feminist. So my husband, my in-laws, my parents, everybody is very, they're very progressive feminist, um, you know, individuals. And so I had to like shift my whole thinking and put myself into somebody else's shoes, right? And so for me, running when I first started, so I didn't just start running either. I was a couch potato. And so that was sort of my relatable point there with Mira. Um and that's why I knew it was such an evil scheme to have her do that half breath on, is because I I remember this point in my life when I was sitting on a couch, and I am not exaggerating when I say I ate an entire bag of family-sized potato chips. And at the when I hit the bottom of that bag, I had such a moment of shame on you, you know, shame on you. There's a gym in this building, and shame on you that you're reaching for that last ship. But I remember that moment. And so my husband introduced me to running. So I many years later, we had moved to Seattle and I uh the gym in our building was broken, and I was just grumpy about something. And my husband said, You know what? That's it. You need to run. Just put on your running shoes. Let's go. Uh, he was a runner at that point. And I was just like, uh, running, sure. Okay, yeah, I'm gonna hate it. I'm sure I'm gonna hate it. And I was right. I Absolutely hated it. It was horrible. Cardio is the worst. But the funny thing is, when I came back, and then the next morning I just woke up energized and it had this amazing effect on me that wanted me to go back for more. And so I that's how I got into running. And it was a really important uh sort of catalytic moment for me because I have been a runner since 2009 when my husband first introduced me to running. And now my daughter runs. She she loves to run. And she will literally, she'll come out come back from her run glowing and like just so happy and excited about life. I'm like, weren't you just really mad like a second ago? I love that. So and so I think that running taught me humility. Running taught me how strong I was. Running taught me things about myself that I did not know. When I ran my first mile, I was blown away. I couldn't even run a mile. And so I when I ran my first half 0.5 miles, I was amazed. And then when I hit my first mile, it was a big moment for me. So it taught me that I was stronger than I thought I was. It taught me that I had more endurance than I thought I had. And it taught me humility too. Because there have been times in my life when I went in to a run thinking, I got this, and I got my butt kicked that day, you know. So I'm like pulling myself over to the car, like my shoes are like, I'm I've got my shoes all across my back. And I'm like, I need to, I can't breathe. I'm dying, you know. So I've had those moments too. So I ran my first half marathon and I realized how important it was to have that be. You have to have a sort of a chariot to for the heroine to for her to get on that's gonna carry her to that across that path of self-growth and go, you know, kind of complete that arc, that growth arc. And so this was going to be Mira's chariot that she's gonna ride to to complete that growth arc because I felt like I could pull from my own experience as a runner and not like an elite runner, not like a professional athlete. No, no, no, no, no. So just any other normal, non-athletic person running, that was my journey. And that's what I wanted Mira to experience. And that was gonna tie into how she completes that journey.

SPEAKER_03 24:23

I love that. I love that you use something that is personal to you to incorporate into her arc to help her along in her story. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

It has to be relatable too. I feel like sometimes um, if I were to try to write something that I hadn't actually experienced and I was just like Googling stuff up to look it up, I don't think it would have had the same effect because the humiliation that I have experienced on my runs when I first started, the humiliation of running and having someone maybe three times my age run past me at a much faster pace. Those moments taught me that, you know, I need to calm down. Like I'm not as fool as I thought I was, you know, take a break. Like, you know, revisit who you are and check what's working, check what's not working. It's really, it's more than just that workout. It's more than just that moment or that that how many calories I've burned. It has nothing to do with that. It has everything to do with the inner self and this the spirit and the mind that I'm bringing to the trail that's going to get me through my run. And yeah. And that was an important element of Mira's journey that I had to incorporate, which could only come from my own personal experience of my triumphs and my humiliations as a runner.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Well, at least Mira had help in her training. I mean, you know. Right. Baby comes on board and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

And so cute.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

You have to have it be a really yeah. I'm glad. And I I just wanted it to be where I wanted to have that chemistry and that tension and all of that. And and it needed to be someone who it needed to be someone who doesn't do the job for her, but more a facilitator, a cheerleader who doesn't who doesn't patronize but who sort of holds back but lets her know he's there. You know, because sometimes I don't I didn't want this to be Andy's triumph on behalf of Mira. I wanted to see Kim Mira triumph on her own. But I wanted there to be a romantic aspect to it. Uh at the end of the day, we all want to be loved for who we are. We want to be, we want to love because you cannot really get very far in life when you're not every once in a while living for someone else or loving someone else or living outside of yourself. Uh it's that balance between loving yourself and living and loving for someone else, but not going overboard either way, but it's kind of finding that equilibrium, and that's what Andy I wanted Andy to bring to the table. And I wanted him to be really good looking too, just for fun. It doesn't hurt to have a really nice, good-looking person be the catalyst, and there's some eye candy that goes with Mira's pain as a through a journey. You know, there's at least she can look over her shoulder and be like, okay, everything's not so bad.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

You know, there's some good good things uh too. Yeah, I actually love that Andy was not the rescuer, you know. I love that. That Mira was, you know, he was just part of the story, a helper. And but Mira was the actual heroine who did it on her own.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Mm-hmm. That's that's kind of the goal, is I I wanted to see, can she make it on her own? I don't want to hand it to her. She's just to fight for it, she's to work for it. And yeah, that's exactly so. I'm glad that that, you know, you felt that off the pages. Um I wanted there to be relatable fumbles, if you will, relatable humiliation. Because how many times have we all as women or men on the other side, right, experienced humiliation at the hands of someone we look up to or admire or have a crush on, right? Mm-hmm. I remember this one incident when I was in uh high school and I had a crush on this guy, and he was standing at the front of the room and uh signaling something, and I, you know, signaled back and then something, it was something about a book, and then he walks toward me, and I my heart's like pumping. And then he walks past me and goes to the guy sitting behind me and starts talking, and I could have died. I think I did. A part of my soul died that day. I just wanted to go under the table and just stay there for the rest of the day. It was so humiliating. I wanted Mirror to have that. I'm just that kind of person. I wanted to share my humiliation. So I wanted Mirror to have those moments where it's not all smooth sailing, where there's moments where she's human too.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

Um yeah, exactly. And we've all had those experiences.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

I was just gonna say that we can all identify.

SPEAKER_03 29:47

Yeah, we can all relate to that. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

And I I wanted to make sure the message is conveyed that it's okay. Someone loves you. You know, my mom once said this to me. Uh those who matter don't mind, and those who mind don't matter. And I think that's really what the story tests is, you know, and I think that's really the the litmus test here is if someone accepts us for the way we are with all of the flaws, so-called flaws, and and the nuances and the quirks, that's the person we want. Not someone who looks at us with our full makeup on and we're perfect and not a single mess up, and they're like, Oh my gosh, you're the person of my dreams. And my response is, I I don't think you are, because no.

SPEAKER_03 30:37

Exactly. Yeah, that's so true. So if someone recognizes themselves in Mira, what do you hope Mira leaves them with? I love that question.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

I I hope it leaves them feeling with the knowledge that they are stronger, more beautiful, more enduring than they realize. Than they've ever given themselves credit for. I hope they walk away feeling that what they thought was impossible is actually possible. There is some lot of love to it and we don't want to overpromise, but it's possible. It's more possible than you think. And don't ever sell yourself short and don't ever let someone else define who you are. Do it on your own. You be the person telling people who you are versus the reverse.

SPEAKER_03 31:30

I love that. That's a beautiful message. Yes, it is beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Thank you. Yeah, that's that's really that's what I hope that someone will take away from that that can relate to Mira story.

SPEAKER_03 31:40

Wonderful. And so, Sapna, where can people find your book and new mantra and follow your work?

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Yeah, I'm on social media, but my books are available anywhere that you would find books. And they're in um so Oni Mantra is in paper format, ebook format. It's available on Kindle. It's available also and in audiobook format for those of us who like audiobooks. I'm the kind of person who will fall asleep listening to an audiobook, but there are better people than I am out there. So I I'm hopeful for them that they can get through that, but I can't.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

Yeah, I have a love-hate relationship with audiobooks. It it depends on the voice who is doing the audio as to whether I can actually listen to it or not.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

Yes, I hear you completely. If it's it has to be just the right amount of, you know, deep and shrill, because the trill keeps you awake and then the deep doesn't kind of like keeps you engaged. If you're too deep, I'm gonna fall asleep. Like first five minutes, I'm out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

Yeah, there you go. Yeah, some people have really, yeah, bass voice. If you have insomnia, just listen to the video. Go for it. Someone with like a really jazz voice, that'll do the trick. You know, that'll do the I love that.

SPEAKER_03 33:06

So thank you so much for joining us and letting us go behind the pages of a new mantra. I love that Mira's journey isn't simply about rebuilding after a marriage ends. I mean, that's a story that's been told over and over. Yours is about learning to question the expectations that have shaped her life and discovering that she gets to have a voice in what comes next. And that sometimes that new chapter starts with something as simple and as difficult as taking that next step. And so I hope everyone watching and listening will pick up a copy of your book. I have it right here for those who are watching. Uh this is what it looks like, a new mantra. Uh, it is a really great story and one that I'm glad that you've told because I do agree it really needs to be told. It needs to be talked about more. Mm-hmm. It does.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

I really appreciate it. Thank you both. It's been such a pleasure. And I honestly can tell you there have been at least four or five times on this podcast that I forgot that I was on a podcast, and I had to like check myself for professionalism because you guys just put me at ease and I've had such a blast, and I'm gonna be thinking about it all day. And I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

I'm so glad they said that too. I I forget sometimes as well that I'm on a podcast.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

And yeah, exactly. We get yeah, we get so into the conversation that we forget, oh yeah, we're recording, right? Yeah, we're gonna have said that.

SPEAKER_06 34:38

Oops.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

I think that means that you guys are doing a really good job. Is what if I were you, that's what I would take from it is I think this is working because that's the first telltale sign, is that you're comfortable and you're bringing able to bring your true authentic self to the table. So I really appreciate you guys leading uh the conversation with that in mind because it really has allowed me to just have so much fun today. So thank you. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03 35:06

Thank you so much. You're welcome. And we'll have all of Sutton's information about her book and where you can follow her work in the episode description and on our website, traveltimestories.com.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

And remember, every book has a story, but so does the person who wrote it.

SPEAKER_05 35:26

So join us beach we'll end up the hotline. We capture the hotline with every story.