How Comedy Helped Me Survive Mental Illness (feat. Dave Mowry)

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You know, I accepted the fact that I have mental illness and I had limitations. But I didn't resign myself to that's how it's always going to be. So I I didn't get stuck. Even even early on when I'd get up and be able to get out of bed and go downstairs, I'd try to sit in a different spot, not on the same spot on the couch all the time. Try to sit in a different chair. Just try to just, you know, try. Just try. And so I think those little tiny things, those little steps, you know, trying and making making those little steps over time, you know, get you out of those, get you out of that darkness. And and, you know, brings you out the other side. There is there is help, there is hope, there is healing, and and uh once you come out the other side, you know, life is good.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Every journey has a story, and every story has the power to heal. My story hasn't been ordinary. I was adopted, I'm a survivor of abuse and trauma, and I have more than a dozen siblings. That's just the beginning of my story. Life has taken me on a long and winding road of healing and personal growth. A journey that ultimately led me back to myself and the path I was meant to walk. Along the way, I discovered that stories have power. The power to connect us, to help us grow, and even to help us heal. This is Travel Time Stories with Shannon. Real journeys, real stories, and real healing. What happens when laughter becomes survival?

SPEAKER_02 1:51

When humor becomes the thing that finally helps you face the pain instead of hide from it.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Today's guest lost everything to mental illness.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

His career, stability, years of his life, even periods of homelessness.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

But somehow, through stand-up comedy, he found his way back to himself, one joke at a time. I'm your host, Shannon, and welcome back to Travel Time Stories with Shannon, where we share real journeys, real stories, and real healing.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

And I am your co-host Ann, and today's conversation is honest, uh emotional, surprisingly funny at times, and deeply hopeful.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

We're joined by Dave Maori, a comedian, speaker, best-selling author of the OMG, that's me, mental health books, and a mental health advocate who uses comedy to break stigma and help people heal.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Dave lives with bipolar disorder and severe anxiety and has turned some of the darkest chapters of his life into connection, hope, and laughter for others.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Today he teaches stand-up comedy to people living with mental illness, helping them reclaim their stories and find humor and experiences that once controlled them. Dave, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Hey, thank you very much, Shannon and Ann. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

We're so glad you're here, Dave. So everyone, grab your favorite beverage and let's get into it. Now, Dave, before everything changed, you described yourself as a successful businessman. So what was life like during that chapter?

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Life was good. We, you know, I was I was successful in business. We were uh we had a happy family, a nice house. We were comfortable financially. Life was good. I remember being with my wife on vacation. We were sitting on a deck overlooking a lake and thinking to myself, you know, we made it. You know, we made it. We didn't have to worry about things. And life was good. So we were very happy uh during this during this time.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

At what point did your mental illness begin affecting your life in ways that you just couldn't ignore anymore?

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Well, I I knew from a young age that I I had that something was going on. And I I had cycles. And when I met my wife, I told her I I was on a, you know, I had three year, three-year cycles, you know, three good years and three not so good years, and then three more good years and three not so good years. And I had no idea what I just knew it. I mean, I'd experienced it, and so I knew it. So it affected me from the time I was a teenager, and as I got older, the highs got higher and the lows got lower. And, you know, finally at a certain point with the businesses and the stress and the anxiety, you know, I I just broke my mind. My mind just broke. And I had a psychotic break, and and that began the my 14 lost years, my dark days.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Wow. So sorry that you went through that, Dave. But I think if you look at try to find the silver lining, maybe it's that by going through that, you finally were able to figure out what was going on and start to get help that you needed.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Yeah, it was I wouldn't want anybody else to go through it. And I look back at before my breakdown, and you know, I look at what could have been. And then once I had my breakdown, I I went into it was 14 years of not being able to interact socially and not being able to work. Um we were homeless with the kids for 18 months, slow, slow, slow recovery. We were hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, and my wife, you know, held us together. She's a hero of my story because she stayed with me, whereas someone else wouldn't have. And if she wouldn't have, I'd still be in a single-room occupancy apartment in Old Town, Portland, with you know, and just lost. So she's a hero of my story.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Did people around you understand what you were going through?

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Not really, no. You know, I disappeared. I mean, when it happened, I couldn't interact. I couldn't do anything. So I I pretty much disappeared from people's lives. So they had no idea. And I couldn't talk about it. I couldn't interact with people, I guess. So a lot of it, I I don't know what at that specific time what what what they were thinking. I do know that, you know, as I was going through it with the people that that we did have in our lives that weren't business related, there was a lot of stigma. There was a lot of uh they didn't understand, they heard the word bipolar, uh, or manic, depressive, and it scared them. I I know one family, our families were I don't know if we were close, but the kids were close, and their kids would come over to our house and play, and vice versa. And and uh my wife one day told them I, you know, I had bipolar disorder, and after that the kids didn't come over to our house to play anymore.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Hmm. Yeah, I understand a little bit of that. I have a, as I told you before we started recording, my oldest son suffers with bipolar schizophrenia and he was diagnosed at age four. And so, I mean, thankfully he got a diagnosis very early on. However, even getting a diagnosis very early on like that didn't prevent us or keep us from going through all the trials and tribulations over the years. As you know, uh teenage years into adulthood, you know, your hormones are all changing and out of whack, and then you add trying to figure out which medications and change medications, you know, to work with your new hormonal changes and whatnot. Um when other parents would find out that he was bipolar, schizophrenic, then kids were no longer allowed to come over and play with him or him, go to their homes and things like that. So it's very, very hard.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Very hard, very hard. It's you know, hard on you as a as a parent and hard on uh him as a child.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Yeah. So this yeah, and the stigma, I I pretended. Gosh, I pretended so much. I pretended to be okay anytime it was when I was around other people. I didn't talk about my diagnosis, I didn't talk about my depression, I didn't talk about, you know, being fulfilled with a overwhelming sense of dread all the time. I I didn't talk about those things. I I pretended to be okay. And, you know, it was exhausting, and I I did that because of the stigma. And I guess partly because of the shame. You know, I've I I was, you know, very active and like, you know, we talked about successful, and then all of a sudden I was, you know, I couldn't I could barely get out of bed. I I really I I I couldn't get out of bed. Or if I did get out of bed, it it was everything I could do to get down to the couch and sit on the couch and just hold it together, just breathe and just be. And I just, you know, I just prayed for peace of mind. Um that's all I I just prayed for peace of mind. It just uh it was everything I could do just just to be. And that went on for years and years and years.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Wow, I cannot imagine that.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

No, I can't either. I think, you know, it's it's almost impossible to describe the depths, the darkness of a true deep depression. You know, it's y when you're in it, it is so dark, it is so hard, it is, you know, um it's just indescribable. You know, you talk about there being uh no light at the end of the tunnel, there's all these different things, but it's just this overwhelming weight, and you know, you lose yourself, you just there's nothing. You got yourself, you and and so it's really unless you've been there, it's really, really difficult to to describe and to understand, but it's really, really awful. And people that get through it, I mean people do get through it. I got through it, and I tell other people listening, you know, you do get through it. There is light at the end of the tunnel, you do make it through to the other side. And when you do just persevering, you you're strong, you know, you're stronger, you're brave, you're just to make it through, just to exist, just to get through those difficult times. Uh shows the inner strength that people with the mental illness that live with mental illness and depression shows the inner strength that they have to to make it through these experiences and these times.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

And yeah, the you talk about you had like a three-year cycle, you know, on your ups and downs or whatever. And there are different everybody has different cycles. And then there are some that are rapid cyclers. Yeah. And unfortunately, that's what my son is a rapid cycler. We would literally in one week span have so many cycles. Like it made my head spin to try to keep up with, you know, whether we were up, down, or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

unknown 12:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

I wrote a blog post. I blog for bphope.com and the blog post has been read by over a million people. The most common comment is, oh MG, that's me. You're telling my story. But one of the blog posts I wrote is uh which bipolar me is going to wake up in the morning. Because I didn't know. I mean, I'd wake up and I I wouldn't know if it was the depressed me or the okay me or the manic me. I just wouldn't know. And, you know, during my dark days, it was the depressed me, but over time, you know, as I got older, my highs got higher, my lows got lower, and they did become more frequent. Yeah, I I can't imagine what what you, you know, the challenges you had. That had to be extremely difficult.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Yeah, and it was uh I mean, I'm sure you're I don't know when you're you finally what year you finally got diagnosed, but for my son, when he was diagnosed, it was still fairly new of them understanding just what bipolar was and having medications to treat. I mean, obviously they had lithium that's been around for many, many, many years, but you know, trying to come up with the newer medications, those were just getting started of helping and them really understanding it. And nobody that I knew personally knew what it was or had anybody in their life that supposedly had it, and the schools had no clue and how to deal with children that were bipolar, and so I literally had to educate myself on the disorder, read every book I could find on it, talked to every doctor that you know was considered an expert in the field on it, to educate myself on what it was, how to help him, and then how to help the schools to help him when he's at school.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Yeah. And the advocacy, the advocacy you had to do for him in the schools.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

And the education, yeah. Um you know, it took me years to get diagnosed correctly. And then it took years after that to find the right combination of medications that really helped me. And I I still have my ups and downs. I still get depressed, but it's mild and it doesn't last as long. And I know it's not gonna last. And I still, you know, have my highs, which aren't very high, they they aren't very high and they don't last very long. And I have so much more stable time in between. And so thank goodness for finding the right medications, and but it took years and years and years for that to happen.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Yeah, it it really does, and in them finding the right combination of medicines that will work for each person. And one of the things that frustrates me the most about m seeking mental health or people needing to get mental health is that they use the DSMB for, well, I think it's five now, um, and everybody they put everybody in the same box.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

But everybody don't fit just because like you, you're bipolar, my son's bipolar, but y'all don't necessarily fit in the same box. And what medicine works for you might not work for him.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

And they don't see it that way.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

No, they don't. And they don't they don't understand the illness. That's one of the reasons I wrote the book, OMG, that's me. Because when I was blogging uh and writing my blogs, I wrote about I went to my dark places, I went to my back to when I was having a panic attack, and I wrote about it as if I was there. And I went back to a dark place and experience and wrote about it uh, you know, like I was there, and I took myself back and I relived it and wrote it. And in those blog posts, and now in the book, OMG That's Me, it's what it is truly like to live with a mental illness. You can read the DSM V, you can go to school for years and years and years, you can read, you can hear lectures. But to really reading my book, reading the stories, is you finally see and understand what it's like to live with the mental illness. And, you know, parents know and people with the mental illness know. But a lot of people in the helping professions, they, you know, they know symptoms, they know things, they know these different treatments, blah, blah, blah, but they don't know what it's truly like to live with a mental illness. And your book should be required reading for each of them. I mean, really. Seriously. Yeah, it I mean, the more people in the helping profession that could read the book to help them truly understand what it's like, what their patients, the people that they're helping, are going through. And I and a lot of them do read my book. I've sold, you know, tens of thousands of copies at this point. So uh it's out there. Um but yeah, I'd like to figure out a way to to get it in the curriculum. You know.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Yeah, that would be wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Yeah. But I'm I haven't uh I haven't pursued that.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Yeah. Well, I mean I tried pursuing uh hoping to get attention brought and change to come about in like mental health diagnoses and people to wake up and see that not everybody can fit in the same box and why. And I had written a letter and with the insurance companies too. Oh, that's a whole nother ball of wax over there. But um, yeah. I had written a letter to the president at the time and explaining like every telling our story of my son and everything we've been through up to that point with him, and you know, the red tape and and this, that, and the other, because the platform that this person had run on was about wanting to change health care and mental health and that kind of thing. And so I thought, what better way if they heard from somebody who's living it? And I included some letters that, like you're talking about with your blog, that my son had written during his phases of depression and and manicness and things like that, just so they can see like this is what a child is going through, and we're not getting help, you know? Right. And yeah, uh, what that got me was Secret Service showing up at my house. Oh no. Saying that saying that I was making a threat to the president.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

I'd like to see that letter. I don't I'd really enjoy that.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

It was actually it's a very everybody that's ever read it just rakes down and cries. And in fact, when the Secret Service shut up to my door, I asked them, I said, Have you read what was sent to the president? And they're like, No, and I said, Well, please. And I handed them the copy of it. I said, take a minute and read it, and then tell me if you think it's a threat. And they literally started crying after they read it and took my hand and said, This is definitely not a threat, and we are so sorry, and we wish there was something that we could do to help you.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Yeah. Well, at least you got that, huh?

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Yeah, at least I got that. That right there deterred me. I'm like, okay, well, no more letters to the president.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

No more letters. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

Yeah. I mean, I thought it was a great idea to send a letter to the president at that point and you know, really supported that idea, and then all that happened.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Yeah, before we continue, I want to share something really special we've created for this community. If you've ever listened to an episode and felt something deeper, like a moment that stayed with you, or a story that made you reflect on your own life, we wanted to give you a place to go with that. We've officially launched our Travel Time Stories membership where you can go beyond listening and become part of the experience. Inside the membership, you'll get access to the Story Circle, our private community where we reflect on each episode through guided journal prompts, share our stories, and connect through monthly meetups. There are also additional tiers with opportunities to go even deeper from storytelling and sharing your voice to being part of the creative journey behind the scenes and joining us on our yearly group travels. If this speaks to you, you can join us through the link. In the show notes or visit our website, traveletimestories.com. We would truly love to have you join the community.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Yeah. But you know, for for me coming out the other side, you know, finding the medication and starting starting to recover. I I remember my first job. Uh I tried to work, I tried to volunteer and couldn't. I'd make it three days. And I'd try I'd try to work. I'd go out and get a job. I could get a job, but I couldn't hold a job maybe at a last week. And then finally I got a part-time minimum wage job twelve hours a week at Macy's downtown Portland. And started working there. And I rode the bus down and walked and made it and made it and uh made it for a year. And that was it's interesting that a 12-hour a week minimum wage job, you know, was my pathway out of the darkness.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

Sometimes it's just the most surprising things, isn't it? Exactly. Something totally around for you.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Yeah. And then I found the other thing is I found NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness, NAMI. And they've got 800 affiliates across the country, and they're grassroots mental health support organization. It was started by parents. And my wife encouraged me to go to the local NAMI affiliate. They had a meeting, and I went, and it was the first place I had been where I could just, you know, be me. And they let me be me. You know, I knew I was accepted. It was a safe place. And I didn't say anything to anybody. I just sat in the back. But it was a place where I wasn't, you know, there were other people that had mental health challenges. And I really, you know, I realized I wasn't alone. And so eventually I I volunteered there at NAMI. And then I got a job, a part-time job there at NAMI. And, you know, that's where through NAMI is where I found the my wife urged me again to go to the stand-up comedy class for people with a mental illness. So I I went and that was another change in my life that really, really uh transformed my life was a huge change just in being in a place with other people with a mental illness and looking for the humor in the darkness and finding humor in the darkness, finding humor in my hard times, and it changed everything. I used to, you know, be riding in the car or at home and hear a song on the radio, and it would take me back to that dark place or a bad time, and I'd have a panic attack, a PTSD attack. And that happened over. It could happen several times a day, or it could happen once a day, but it happened over and over and over. And then when I started taking the comedy class and I'd hear a song that triggered me or took me back to a dark time, I'd start thinking, okay, where can I find the humor in that? And I didn't go, I didn't have that panic attack. And it just reframed everything. And so I was able to look for humor in my experiences and then write jokes about it. And um I can't it was so healing. Uh, it really made a huge difference in my life. And then I s of course I started teaching the stand-up comedy classes to other people, and I saw the same transformation happen with them that happened with me.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

So why do you think humor is so powerful when it comes to pain?

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

Why do you think it is?

SPEAKER_00 25:51

You know, we laughter and tears, I think, you know, and release endorphins. I mean, I think a lot of a lot of these things come from a similar place inside of us. So finding comedy, finding humor, finding laughter, I think it helps real release, you know, our endorphins and relieve some of the pain. And, you know, we see things in a different way. Uh, you know, I didn't see myself as poor me or anything. I saw I saw my challenges, my darkness, my hard times as uh a vehicle to find humor. And it's a total reframing uh of everything. And so I I think that's why I think when people hear some of the jokes that I tell or that we tell from our stand-up comedy performances, uh again, they're hearing, you know, I tell my story one joke at a time. So they're hearing truth and honesty, and they're they're seeing themselves in me, some of their experiences in me. And then I turn it into a joke and and uh laugh out loud, funny joke, and and they start laughing at it, and they laugh, they truly laugh and laugh and laugh because it releases something inside of them. So they don't have to see it as a darkness, as a weakness, or whatever. They can see it as something that can be funny.

SPEAKER_02 27:20

Yeah, or maybe they're identifying.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Yeah, I think so. I think so, very much so. And you know, I'm told, you know, you can't joke about mental illness. You can't um people who have a mental illness and family members, uh, they're the greatest audience for mental health humor in the world. They need to find the lightness. It's so much darkness, so much weight, and to find the lightness and to to lift the weight. And it's it's just amazing when I see that happen, and people come up to me after the shows and talk to me. And I had one fella who, when I was working at NAMI, um I was doing peer support, and his parents brought him in and he was suicidal, and clearly suicidal, and they knew he was suicidal, they were afraid he was gonna commit suicide at any time, and he came back and he was uh he was kind of a shell of a person, and uh I talked with him and his parents, and then I had his parents go out and in the lobby, and I sat and I talked to him, and and when he found out that, you know, I lived with a mental illness and then I'd had suicide ideations and thought about suicide, then he, you know, he opened up and started to talk about it. And then one of the most popular jokes of my shows is my suicide joke. And you know, yeah, people say you can't joke about suicide, you know, suicide's not funny, and uh kind of they're right, unless it is. And I have a general suicide shows joke that I'd like to share with you.

SPEAKER_03 28:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Are you ready? Once once during the dark times when things were really, really bad, I decided to end it all. So I went up into the bathroom and I took a bunch of pills. Afterwards, I called my wife for help. She said there are more pills into the sink. I know. It takes a beat. It takes a beat. Can I laugh at that? Yeah, is that funny? Can I laugh at that? And that's what happens in the shows. It takes it, there's just like a beat, like a half a second, and then then people just you know, it's just a funny joke. So But I told that joke to the fellow that was they brought in because he was on the verge of suicide, and he started la he laughed at it and laughed and laughed. And by the end of the time we were talking, his demeanor changed, everything had changed. And I made him promise to come back the next day and the day after and the day after, but his parents couldn't I mean the person that came in and the person that left were, you know, they were two different people. And it was because of the, you know, because he was talking to somebody who with who'd had the experience, but he uh he also heard the joke and was able to laugh at it, and it took that. It took suicide and it kind of brought it out into the open and made it something that we can laugh about and we don't have to hide. Because just about everybody in the classes that I teach, everybody has suicide ideation. Just everybody. And people don't act on it and whatever, but it's just part of the illness. Uh those thoughts just come.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

Yeah. Sounds to me like you helped somebody that day, Dave.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Yeah. Yeah, I helped somebody that day. I um yeah, I helped somebody that day.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

Sometimes there's a reason for what we go through, and I'm hearing I'm hearing that you help people a lot.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Yeah, it's you know, I had somebody a while back ask me, you know, if I could, would I go back to, you know, before the illness and not have the illness. And and I think, of course, you know, we were happy and things were so good, and to be happy and and have a life without mental illness would have been great. But at the same time, having gone through the darkness and gone through the challenges and developing the compassion and then being able to to help other people and tell my story and have other people see themselves and realize that they're not alone. Um you know, I wouldn't trade that either. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Yeah, it's kind of a double-edged sword there when it comes to that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Yeah. So as far as your joke goes, I have to ask. What's the difference laughing at mental illness and laughing through it?

SPEAKER_00 31:54

I think, you know, if somebody's making fun of m mental illness or a mental the mentally ill, it's not funny. You know? It's not funny, it's mean-spirited, it shows a lack of just about everything within a side of the person. So making fun of mental illness is not okay. And and so we don't do that. I don't do that. And it's everything we talk about, everything, every joke I have is based in truth. I mean, I was suicidal. I went I had a gun and I sat at a park bench at a park, and I I contemplated and contemplated, and you know, I didn't do it. But I I you know, I I I did live through those that suicidal ideation, that suicidal time. So I I can tell you the joke is about me, and then the punchline is not punching down, it's not making any fun uh fun of anybody. Right except maybe my wife. She loves the joke too. So I th I think that's it. I think being honest, um being honest about it, being truthful, uh sharing, and and the jokes aren't I mean the the the what the jokes are about uh uh is uh is not made up. You know, it's suicide. You don't it's not a made-up joke about suicide. It's truth and then a twist at the end to m to find some humor in it. And the same thing with uh with depression. I've got a uh another joke uh I'll share with you. I was the you know, there's stigma associated with mental illness and being you know, having a mental illness. I I see stigma, I see discrimination where where other people don't take happy hour, for instance. I think that's being discriminatory. There should also be a crappy hour for depressed people, and bipolar people could go to both.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Hey, I'm with you on that one. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

I love it. So you know, it's it's real, it's based in truth, and so I think that's what makes it okay. And it's about, you know, it's about me, it's not about other people.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

Why do you think people remain so uncomfortable talking openly about mental illness? It's so many people suffer from it.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Yeah, I think there's a you know, that's it's starting to come out of the shadows more and more, but it's one of the last things to come out of the closet, so to speak. Uh people are still afraid of it because they, you know, they hear a news story. And, you know, people with mental illness can have violent tendencies and those things happen. But people extrapolate that onto, you know, say anybody with a mental illness is capable of that. So I think there's a fear for people with a mental illness. You know, we've been burned, we've been, you know, we've lost friends, we've lost people lost opportunities because we've shared the fact that we have mental illness, so we don't speak about it as much. I think being, you know, some people are talking about it, writing about it, people living with it, some more people, famous people are coming out and talking about their mental illness, so that's helping. But it's you know, people just people don't know. And they see the, you know, the person on the street with schizophrenia that's untreated, and that's their vision of mental illness. And, you know, uh almost a fifth of the population live with the mental illness at any one point in the year, mostly either depression or anxiety. Um but that's you know, uh a lot of us, a lot of us live with the mental illness. And um of us are just regular folks. You know, we're just regular people. We're we're getting by or we're doing the best we can, and we're okay, and we're kind and we're considerate and thoughtful, and we're not dangerous. And you know, the more we can communicate that, the more people can see that, the better off we'll be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Yeah, exactly. I think people don't talk about it because it's kind of similar to about how how people are with grief. Like you just really don't know what to say. Yeah. It makes you uncomfortable. So you just avoid it.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Yeah, I I think that's right. I think that's right. Because you know, I don't know, what do you say?

SPEAKER_01 36:43

Exactly. Yeah, because I mean you can't really relate because you haven't been through it or you're not going through it. So what do you say? You know? Yeah, yeah. And then and then you form truly yeah, and then you have all these preconceived ideals about what someone with mental illness is, like what you were talking about, you know, from just movies or what you see out on the street or other people talking or you know, things like that. So rather than educating yourself on it, you know, you just go by what you've heard or what you think preconceptually.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Yeah, and the media doesn't help. So often, you know, there's a violent event, and the first thing that you hear is, you know, somebody's taking meds or they're bipolar, and you know, what is it, 2% I think, of the population. Only 2% of the population has bipolar disorder. So, you know, and and but but it comes up all the time when there's a violent event. So not all these people can have bipolar disorder. And the same thing with schizophrenia, it's 1% of the population. So, you know and the stories, the media, the the you know, these and and jumping to conclusions, that type of thing, doesn't help. Exactly. Yeah, so people think that people with a mental illness are dangerous, and you know, we're just not, we're just regular people.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

Yeah, exactly. That's why conversations like this are so important to get the word out there to educate people so they can understand and see that someone with mental illness is just like me and you. It actually could be you. You never know. When so I mean, and most of the population like you were talking about, at one point or another is gonna suffer with some type of mental illness, depression, anxiety, whatever, especially in today's society.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

Yeah. And lots of kids are going through the anxiety, living with the anxiety. Exactly. Um and you know, for me, the the highs were awful. Um and that's where I mean I have the regrets for things that I did do, and then the lows, the depression was awful, and I had regrets for the things I couldn't do or that happened or the things I'd lost. But the anxiety, you know, that was constant. That was overwhelming, that was constant living with the anxiety, and that was in many ways, that was that was the worst part. You know, I'd have panic attacks. God, I'd have panic attacks. Take me days to recover, and you know, I have um but you know, I think I think part of my story and part of what I'd like to share is that uh you did come out the other side. And for me, you know, the homelessness and the 14 lost years and dark days, I I could have given up. And and I I called it acceptance without resignation. You know, I accepted the fact that I have mental illness and I had limitations, but I didn't resign myself to that's how it's always going to be. So I I didn't get stuck. Even even early on, when I'd get up and be able to get out of bed and go downstairs, I'd try to sit in a different spot, not in the same spot on the couch all the time. Try to sit in a different chair, just try to just, you know, try, just try. And so I think those little tiny things, those little steps, you know, trying and making making those little steps over time, you know, get you out of those get you out of that darkness and you know, brings you out the other side. There is there is hope, there is hope, there is healing, and once you come out the other side, you know, life is good. And the other thing is about suicide is you know, suicide's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. And when you're in it, it looks like that's the only solution. You've got to end it, gotta end the pain, gotta end the pain, I've got to end the pain. But the pain goes. The pain doesn't last, the pain passes, and then you've got a whole life, and you've got people, and you've got once you've been in the darkness and had those hard times, nothing's sweeter than life afterwards. You appreciate every little moment, don't you, Dave? I sure do. I sure do. Every day that I feel good, every day I can jump on a podcast, or every day I can teach a class, or every time I I can I can talk to somebody else with a mental illness, or or write a book, or you know, yeah. It's nice that I've been able to use my experiences and turn it into something positive. And other people can do it too. One of the things that really helped me was uh I tried to do something nice for somebody every day. So even though I was stuck in my head, and when we're in this, we're just stuck in our heads and we can't get out, and we can't get out, and the thoughts and the dark thoughts, and you know, we it we just can't get out of our heads. But if we l try to do something nice for somebody, whether it's our kids or our wife, just something simple, just some, you know, the smallest little thing, and it doesn't even have to be noticed, but if you look to do something nice for somebody every day, you get you out of your head at least for a while, and it helps with the healing. Right.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

Yeah, we've said that many times on the show before that doing something for someone else, no matter what it is, I mean, even if it's just reaching out just to say hello and check in on somebody will help you when you're in a poor state.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

That's right. If you do it for the right reasons, um you don't even realize how much it's helping you.

SPEAKER_01 42:51

Yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

Do you think healing means the absence of struggle or learning how to live alongside it differently?

SPEAKER_00 43:01

I th I think it's learning how to live with it differently. I think it's learning how not to be pulled down by it to to have it, you know, knock you down on your knees. You know, we all have struggles, some more than others. Um But yeah, I I you know, we all we all struggle. And I think as we go through those struggles, we don't realize that we can become a little bit stronger and a better person every time I come come through it. And I, you know, I respect people that, you know, I live with mental health challenges, but people who have lost a loved one or especially, you know, God forbid, a child, or you know, somebody who's going through a divorce or losing their job. Um you know, these are these are struggles that that you know once once Once you get through 'em and you will get through 'em, then then you're stronger and you're able and you can also use that to help other people.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

Yeah, that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

Believe in yourself.

SPEAKER_01 44:15

Yeah, exactly. So Dave, I have to ask. And and if this is too personal and you don't want to answer, then that's quite a right, I understand. But you talk about, you know, how your wife is your savior in your story because she, you know, she stood by you and didn't leave you when a lot of a lot of people would. And you had children that went through this as well. And how are they doing now? And is there lessons that they have learned from going through this?

SPEAKER_00 44:50

You know, my wife is, you know, truly amazing. She's, you know, she's amazing. She's been supportive through the whole thing and continues to be supportive. And, you know, I I support her now more than I'm sure I would have ever if I wouldn't have gone through this. The kids are doing well. My son was eight when we lost our house and we were we were out. And my daughter was ten. But the they had a base. I mean, you know, we'd we'd been a happy family. I'd been an involved dad. They were good kids, and so they had this base. My son said something not too long ago. Actually, he took me out for my birthday, and we were talking, and he he just as we were talking, he made a comment that he knew what it was like to be poor. And uh, you know, that kind of you know hit me and I was like, oh God. You know, because that's when, you know, I've got regrets about things that happened and how they happened and and all that, but you know, and I I live with that, I I deal with that, and then I'm okay with that. But when it comes to the kids and what they went through and having them had have to go through those experiences, that's when the tears come. But they're doing okay. My wife Heather's doing great. Uh my daughter Megan is doing well, she has three kids, my son David has two kids, wonderful wife, happy family. Uh they turned out great. So I don't know. I've never sat down with my son and actually had that heart-to-heart talk about what happened and what it was like and what he thinks and how he feels. And uh, you know, part of me is afraid to do it. So um, I may I just, you know, I mean, I don't know if I want to know what he has to say, so I may never ask a question. But he's he's very happy and doing very well.

SPEAKER_02 46:55

I think I think kids know more than we give them credit for when things like that are happening. In there with a house thing and having young kids. But I did talk to my girls about it and was very surprised at some of the things they said to me. So Are you glad you did? Yeah, I am. It made me feel better about everything. So maybe think about opening that conversation sometime. He might he might surprise you and say, Dad, I I don't know how you and mom did it. You know, we saw what was happening. We don't know how you did it, but we are so proud of you that you did.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

Maybe he'll forgive me for uh during during the times when I wasn't well, um you know, the kids carpooled to school with the neighbor across the street. And uh so one of us would take him to school and one of us would pick him up. And there was about three different times that I just forgot to pick him up. I was just in my head and on the couch, and I couldn't move, and I just forgot. And so they were sitting there at school. So maybe I'll ask him how he feels about me forgetting to pick him up at school.

SPEAKER_02 48:14

I left mine at the game several times and they had to call me to come get them, Dave.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

So I'm gonna say that that can happen even if you don't have mental illness. So I mean, don't be jumping tough about that yourself in grace.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

You deserve it.

SPEAKER_01 48:30

Yeah, give yourself grace for that because.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

Yeah, I'll forgive myself a little bit for that.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

We've all been there.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:38

Exactly. Yeah. The moment of panic when they call and you're like, what?

SPEAKER_00 48:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:46

You're where? And I I'm supposed to be aware.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've never driven so fast down the street as when I was. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

Yeah, exactly. So that's that's a normal day. So give yourself some grace for that.

SPEAKER_00 49:03

Okay, I'll I'll give myself some grace for that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 49:06

I didn't get a ticket in those days. I've I've wondered to this day, seriously. Exactly. So yeah, we all do it.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

And I think too, like your kids seeing you go through that and having to experience it obviously along with you because you know, they're your kids. I think that gave them more empathy and sympathy as they grew older. You know, and so that's a that's a blessing. That's a blessing in itself. I mean, like my youngest son, he went through everything, you know, with with his older brother. And he is like one of the most tuned in kids I've ever seen in my life of being able to pick up on people's emotions and feelings and being so empathetic with them. And yeah, so even though if you know, when you talk to him, he can tell you the negative side of it too, of what he went through. But there was so much positive he got out of it as well going through the whole thing with his brother.

SPEAKER_00 50:22

No, it got him um um scholarships and grants for uh college at George Washington University. Um, we were poor, two, um two, he had a story to tell. And uh I haven't read his essay, but I'm sure it was pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

Yeah, that same thing. My youngest son, that's how he got his scholarship to go to St. Louis University was his story um being raised with his brother. And yeah. Another silver lining, you know.

SPEAKER_00 51:01

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because we sh we sure couldn't afford to send him there.

SPEAKER_01 51:08

Yep. Same here. We we didn't have the money to send my son to a school like that either. So it was a blessing that he was able to get a scholarship out of it. So Dave, your story is such a beautiful reminder that healing doesn't always look like the way people expect it to. And sometimes it looks like honesty, sometimes community, and sometimes it sounds like laughter.

SPEAKER_00 51:39

If you can look for some humor in the darkness, if you can just say to yourself, where can I find some humor in that? Starts to change everything. And if you can say it enough times about enough things, it truly does change things. So that time when you did forget to pick up your kid from school, if you can look for the humor there and find a joke about it. It helps helps heal that wound. And it it uh makes a difference. It truly, the humor truly makes a difference. And I I must plug I've got to plug my new book, He it's called Healing with Humor, Mental Illness to Mental Health, One Laugh, One Joke, One Story at a Time. And it just came out, it's brand new, and it tells a story of five people who took the stand-up comedy class that I had that I teach and the transformation that happened with them. And in the book, it includes the jokes that they tell when they perform on stage. So it's it's inspirational, it's moving, and it's funny, and it's uh I'm really proud of it. I think it's a great book. So it's healing with humor. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 52:57

You have taken some incredibly painful experiences. You've turned them into connection, hope, and purpose for other people, Dave. That is so powerful. Where can listeners find out more about you?

SPEAKER_00 53:14

Uh they can go to Dave Maori.com. They can also I I think what uh you know, the books are on Amazon, and so there's information there, and then of course the books, I think, to truly, if you want to, you know, OMG, that's me. Um you read it and you find out what it's truly like to live with a mental illness. If you live with a mental illness, you say, oh my God, I'm not alone. You know, you're telling my story. I wrote it, I went back to those dark places when I wrote it, but but honestly, I I've never sat down and read it from beginning front to back, because that takes me to those dark places that I don't necessarily want to go to. So I've kind of skimmed it back to front. But if you really want to know me, get the book. Uh otherwise davemowrie.com. And if anybody wants to talk, I give out my email address and I answer my emails. So if anybody just wants to communicate or talk, it's Dave Mowrie, the number two, Dave Mowrie2 at gmail.com. So, you know, reach out. If you know somebody that's living with a mental health challenge, you got a question, or if you're living with a mental health challenge, reach out. If you just want to hear a funny joke, reach out and I'll I'll tell you a funny joke.

SPEAKER_01 54:34

That's a wonderful Dave. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us today.

SPEAKER_00 54:40

Well, thank you so much for having me. I I think we've I'm sure we've made a difference in somebody's life today.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

Oh, absolutely. I believe it.

SPEAKER_02 54:48

And that's why we do this. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

You know, one story at a time.

SPEAKER_00 54:53

One story at a time, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

Yep. So to our listeners, if you know someone struggling with mental illness, share this episode with them so they can be reminded that they are not alone. Because even in our darkest chapters, healing is still possible. And we will have Dave's information in the show notes and on our website, traveltime stories.com, where each of our listeners has a dedicated page so you can learn more about them and listen to their episodes. If you would like to get more involved with the show, we invite you to become a member of the story circle, and information is on our website.

SPEAKER_02 55:32

And until next time, keep traveling your story and keep making memories for life, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 55:38

You know, I accepted the fact that I have mental illness and I had limitations, but I didn't resign myself to that's how it's always going to be. So I I didn't get stuck. Even early on, when I'd get up and be able to get out of bed and go downstairs, I'd try to sit in a different spot, not on the same spot on the couch all the time. Try to sit in a different chair, just try to, just you know, try, just try. And so I think those little tiny things, those little steps, you know, trying and making making those little steps over time, you know, get you out of those, get you out of that darkness and and you know, brings you out the other side. There is there is hope, there is hope, there is healing, and and uh once you come out the other side, you know, life is good!